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Thread: Cleveland or Windsor

  1. #11
    Senior Member andrewforbes's Avatar
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    This is all very interesting, it seems it comes down to personal preference, I'm a fan of 351 clevo but always heard the 351 Windsor were the better engine. Is it possible to fix the breathing issue of the Windsor? Brother n law is building a xy gt replica n is considering a 351 clevo with 4v heads, is there a particular way of identifying both engines other then the stamp on the block

  2. #12
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewforbes View Post
    This is all very interesting, it seems it comes down to personal preference, I'm a fan of 351 clevo but always heard the 351 Windsor were the better engine. Is it possible to fix the breathing issue of the Windsor? Brother n law is building a xy gt replica n is considering a 351 clevo with 4v heads, is there a particular way of identifying both engines other then the stamp on the block
    You wouldn't persevere with a 351W, too many issues and drawbacks. Much better off with a 351C (or 393C stroker) or little 347W with alloy heads.

    351 4V clevo has the water outlet in the block not the manifold and the 4V heads have a "4" embossed on the top corner of the head near the rocker cover face.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  3. #13
    Validated User Bluestuff1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andrewforbes View Post
    This is all very interesting, it seems it comes down to personal preference, I'm a fan of 351 clevo but always heard the 351 Windsor were the better engine. Is it possible to fix the breathing issue of the Windsor? Brother n law is building a xy gt replica n is considering a 351 clevo with 4v heads, is there a particular way of identifying both engines other then the stamp on the block
    For a replica the clevo is best because that is what it came with .
    Other wise in the real world , a 351w stroked to 393 , with some alloy heads will show up any 351c and live longer befor the Clevos bores become water cooled , and the #5 rod bearing passed the big end cap flying out thru the sump to allow more air cooling to the oil ............fishing is great !

  4. #14
    a.k.a. T3man MisterAU's Avatar
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    The breathing issue of the "old" Windsors is fixed with aftermarket heads and manifolds. "New" Windsors which are smaller 5.0L motors don't have a breathing problem really. However if you go over 5.0L then aftermarket (alloy) heads will again give benefits. Your bro-in-law should stick with Clevo for his project and honestly for a road driven car there is absolutely nothing to be gained with 4V heads. One, you will lose torque below 2500 RPM and two, you won't gain any power until over 5500 RPM.
    Australian Muscle Car ... "It is a sensational high performance vehicle; a beautifully engineered and immensely capable four door Grand Tourer or 'GT' in the truest sense of that tradition."

    No prize for guessing what car they were referring to ... OWN THE ROAD ...

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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Except performance.

    4V Cleveland is and has always been the king of the Ford small block family. Ford developed it to replace the 351W and fix the breathing issues.

    The most successful Ford engine ever raced in Australia.

    Current V8SC engine is a hybrid mix of both engines, a modern "Boss" 302.
    Successful yes, we won't mention oiling problems, & failure of valve train problems, split bores, blown head gaskets. I 'll leave that to Mr Webb, & Mr Moffatt, & the pit crews.

    Still the mighty Clevo has an envious rumble to it, & sounds so good being thrashed on a dragstrip, or race track.

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisterAU View Post
    The breathing issue of the "old" Windsors is fixed with aftermarket heads and manifolds. "New" Windsors which are smaller 5.0L motors don't have a breathing problem really. However if you go over 5.0L then aftermarket (alloy) heads will again give benefits. Your bro-in-law should stick with Clevo for his project and honestly for a road driven car there is absolutely nothing to be gained with 4V heads. One, you will lose torque below 2500 RPM and two, you won't gain any power until over 5500 RPM.
    There is a way around the 4V "discomfort" a custom cam grind, 4V heads we never really designed for the street, nor was the cam in the mighty HO's.
    Cam design has come a long way in recent years, so if you wish to retain the authentic look & mechanical flat tappet cam sound, there is a solution

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  9. #17
    Senior Member andrewforbes's Avatar
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    I reckon clevo is the way to go to, didn't really know that about 4v heads, so 2v heads are more suited to every day driving? What's the difference between the 2 types of heads? Is it possible to get all the engine info(specs) on a GTHO? Now my old man had 1970 fastback Stang imported from the States n it says 351c on the motor so I take it, it's a clevo as the car is set for a complete resto

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