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Thread: E63 AMG POV Autobahn Fast Drive Video - GREAT!

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    W507 is not a factory product, it's aftermarket. If you're just chasing a number that's fine but most in this space are more into the DNA of factory performance.

    LSA R8's are punching out very consistent 4.5's all day.

    With regards to the W1 you need to look deeper than the peak power numbers, its geared very tall, it will do a mathematical 98kph in 1st gear, meaning a gear change just before 100kph. One has been recorded at 4.2 seconds, while the same car, at Heathcote did a 4.5.

    But all that said we've reached the point of diminishing returns for a large 2 tonne RWD performance vehicle, E63 needs AWD to go faster.

    The euro's in the high 3.X sec bracket like M3, Alfa, C63 etc are all smaller vehicles and substantially lighter.
    With the W1 at 1850 kilos, it's only 80 kilos heavier than the C63... Given the huge power difference, I'd say it's come up short in the acceleration stakes.

    The gearing is set for the 0-60mph dash...

    HSV show you what you can do when you don't have to spend money on developing an engine... But you also can't modify gear ratios to suit the local agenda either...

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  3. #12
    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    Have to disagree to an extent here. My only (and I stress ONLY) comparison with GTS was the power and/or acceleration. Not talking price, quality, reliability, servicing costs, leather, equipment, interior fitout - nothing - JUST power and acceleration. .
    OK mate I got it bold above.
    Its not that black and white mind you but I do agree on the gm PR spin they churn out.....

    Back on the vid, have to say it is very engaging watching it, I'll have to give this a try one day wearing the supplied elasticised head band I have with the gopro.
    It sure does give a great action perspective.
    Hows the down shifting music.
    I miss driving in europe, at least people know to keep to the slow lane as mentioned.
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

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  5. #13
    Senior Member Falco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    W507 is not a factory product, it's aftermarket. If you're just chasing a number that's fine but most in this space are more into the DNA of factory performance.

    LSA R8's are punching out very consistent 4.5's all day.

    With regards to the W1 you need to look deeper than the peak power numbers, its geared very tall, it will do a mathematical 98kph in 1st gear, meaning a gear change just before 100kph. One has been recorded at 4.2 seconds, while the same car, at Heathcote did a 4.5.

    But all that said we've reached the point of diminishing returns for a large 2 tonne RWD performance vehicle, E63 needs AWD to go faster.

    The euro's in the high 3.X sec bracket like M3, Alfa, C63 etc are all smaller vehicles and substantially lighter.
    If you say Walkinshaw's W507 pack is aftermarket then you are saying that HSV is aftermarket. WP507 is as fully developed and warranted as the base GTS LSA motor. Call THAT aftermarket if it floats your boat. HSV is in-house Walkinshaw and there are no borders in development between them. I wasn't simply chasing a number, I referenced the WP507 pack as it is fully developed by Walky/HSV (same company/parent company) and it was the one I researched fully to install on my GTS that I was to purchase prior to Sprint bursting into existence. It was the most completely developed, fully warranted (by Walky THRU HSV) and put minimal stress on the LSA. As one insider put it so eloquently in an engineering paper "It was the config we really wanted for GTS but marketing dictate otherwise".

    On another note I could say a main thrust of my story is best illustrated by your point above; by the fact that a supercharged 6.2 Litre R8, sucking that much worth of juice, is ONLY good for the same 0-100 time of a smaller more efficient 5 litre Ford V8 and/or a 4 litre six. All the while the Fords suck commensurately less petrol doing the same deeds. This is where I lose it a bit with the reviewers going all lala about the achievements of the HSV's when the smaller motored Sprints are just as quick AND more efficient. Yeah -0 I know - fuel use isn't important to me either, I just use it to make a point about the motors. I have NEVER observed this perspective mentioned in any review. The poor 'ol Sprints always get left out of the conversation. Seems like an inconvenient truth to be simply overlooked. Every. Single. Time.
    - Winter White XR6 Sprint #141 with 3M Carbon tint & Koya SF-06 19" silver machined-face rims; original PZeros -

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  7. #14
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    If you say Walkinshaw's W507 pack is aftermarket then you are saying that HSV is aftermarket. HSV is in-house Walkinshaw and there are no borders in development between them. I wasn't simply chasing a number, I referenced the WP507 pack as it is fully developed by Walky/HSV (same company/parent company) and it was the one I researched fully to install on my GTS that I was to purchase prior to Sprint bursting into existence. It was the most completely developed, fully warranted (by Walky THRU HSV) and put minimal stress on the LSA. As one insider put it so eloquently in an engineering paper "It was the config we really wanted for GTS but marketing dictate otherwise".

    On another note I could say a main thrust of my story is best illustrated by your point above; by the fact that a supercharged 6.2 Litre R8, sucking that much worth of juice, is ONLY good for the same 0-100 time of a smaller more efficient 5 litre Ford V8 and/or a 4 litre six. All the while the Fords suck commensurately less petrol doing the same deeds. This is where I lose it a bit with the reviewers going all lala about the achievements of the HSV's when the smaller motored Sprints are just as quick AND more efficient. Yeah -0 I know - fuel use isn't important to me either, I just use it to make a point about the motors. I have NEVER observed this perspective mentioned in any review. The poor 'ol Sprints always get left out of the conversation. Seems like an inconvenient truth to be simply overlooked. Every. Single. Time.
    Nope, not saying that at all.

    W507 is an aftermarket kit, HSV dont sell a W507, you buy a HSV and have it fitted.

    While i agree in sentiment and shared resource they work together you don't get full factory warranty on a W507.

    to further this point the W507 kit isn't complied to the same ADR's as a genuine HSV (is it even complied at all?).

    HSV products are stand alone models complied to the same ADR's as Holden work to, i.e a car manufacturer.

    Walkinshaw have no such requirements.

    So no, HSV in not an aftermarket company, Walkinshaw is.

    Also if you think you'll take on a GTS in your Sprint 6 by all means be my guest!!

    Let us know how that goes, it will be close, but you'll have your work cut out, on average he'll have a tenth or 2 on you in every area.

    I love my Sprints but i know when you're chewing a lot.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  8. #15
    Senior Member Falco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Nope, not saying that at all.

    W507 is an aftermarket kit, HSV dont sell a W507, you buy a HSV and have it fitted.

    While i agree in sentiment and shared resource they work together you don't get full factory warranty on a W507.

    to further this point the W507 kit isn't complied to the same ADR's as a genuine HSV (is it even complied at all?).

    HSV products are stand alone models complied to the same ADR's as Holden work to, i.e a car manufacturer.

    Walkinshaw have no such requirements.

    So no, HSV in not an aftermarket company, Walkinshaw is.

    Also if you think you'll take on a GTS in your Sprint 6 by all means be my guest!!

    Let us know how that goes, it will be close, but you'll have your work cut out, on average he'll have a tenth or 2 on you in every area.

    I love my Sprints but i know when you're chewing a lot.
    "So no, HSV in not an aftermarket company, Walkinshaw is."

    So, how does that sentence work given HSV is owned by Walkinshaw?


    "Also if you think you'll take on a GTS in your Sprint 6 by all means be my guest!!"

    No interest at all, let alone resources to do so. You may have the contacts though - go for it! I suppose depending on the day, the driver, the car either one could win . . . depending, so not the point at all. My point was their performance, give OR take a tenth, is identical and extraordinarily so given the significant difference in capacity and this speaks to the innate efficiency and thorough development of the smaller Ford motor.

    If all this means the smaller Ford motor is "chewing a lot" over the flying quarter or to 100 clicks I reckon that's just fine if she ends up only a tenth or so behind, all considered. Who knows, there's the same chance that variables may kick in and see the 'little six that tried' win by those same few tenths.

    Some fresh perspective is perhaps needed here as it is easy to miss the following points; It is all really beyond argument when one considers the size difference in the motors. Imagine if the six was 6.2 litres! Or even 5 litres!! LLLOOOOLLL!!! We wouldn't be having this conversation! It would be decisively all over red rover. The fact she does what she does with 4 litres is simply extraordinary, bar none.
    - Winter White XR6 Sprint #141 with 3M Carbon tint & Koya SF-06 19" silver machined-face rims; original PZeros -

  9. #16
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    "So no, HSV in not an aftermarket company, Walkinshaw is."

    So, how does that sentence work given HSV is owned by Walkinshaw?

    Well Holden own the majority share of HSV for starters with Ryan Walkinshaw the minority share holder.


    Walkinshaw Performance is it's own stand alone business.

    Not that it matters, HSV is registered and a new car manufacturer, Walkinshaw Performance, who do the W507 kits is not.

    Doing the W507 kits under the Walkinshaw Performance name saves them a HEAP of compliance money and trouble to validate a W507 as a separate model which would be cost prohibitive..

    The only down side is Holden wont warrant it, nor is it recognised as a factory model.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  10. #17
    Senior Member Falco's Avatar
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    The legalities are moot as far as the mechanicals are concerned. There are numerous articles extolling Ryan Walkinshaw as the owner of HSV but short of paying for an ASIC extract I can't prove any further. The W507 kit is created by the same engineers that are employed by the same boss with the same talent and the same warranty. Like a shifty moving assets in and out of the Cayman Islands the company ownerships are all plastic and pliable. What matters is that the 507 mechanicals are sound and warranted and you can't ask for more than the Walky engineering team. They work transparently and closely with the HSV guys so who has their name on ownership papers is moot. The warranty is full body and will be honoured one way or 'tuther on that kit. It is ONLY when one ventures into their 530 or 580 kit that the warranty starts to get conditional and exclusive. The phrase/comment I can't remove from my thinking and the one that had me convinced the WP507 was for me if I got a GTS was the one where the Walky engineers (the WALKY engineer) said WALKINSHAW wanted to make the GTS WITH THEIR 507 pack baked in as standard but marketing thought better of it - possibly as they knew this half-hearted W1 thing was on the horizon with only 474kws. How embarrassment that would have been Kylie Mole!
    - Winter White XR6 Sprint #141 with 3M Carbon tint & Koya SF-06 19" silver machined-face rims; original PZeros -

  11. #18
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Brian, for the last time, a W507 is NOT a HSV or Holden warranted model.

    End of story.

    Walkinshaw independently offer driveline cover at their discretion (read the fine print).

    Abuse isn't covered which ironically is what HSV say too.

    Effectively they'll only cover a manufacturing defect if the vehicle is being used sensibly.

    W507 is not tested to the same validation, Durability or ADR compliance level as a GTS.

    If it was don't you think HSV would offer it as a stand alone model with full Holden Warranty???!!!!

    This is why it's offered by WP, because they're not an OEM car manufacturer and not bound by the same legislative red tape and OEM certification.

    If you're asking me who I'd rather modify my GTS? Then absolutely Walkinshaw over any other aftermarket company.

    But it's still a modified GTS, even if Ryan himself did it.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  13. #19
    Senior Member Falco's Avatar
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    We must have had a miscommunication along the way somewhere 4V. I know HSV won't cover warranty on W507. Walkinshaw does. It has simply been my assertion that their cover is just as good to have due to who they are in the motoring universe and specifically in relation to HSV. Yes, I do understand that Walky does not have the coveted car manufacturer status like HSV. All good, so relax . . .

    As for whether they'd offer it as a stand alone model, well, Walkinshaw wanted to do that, see my previous comments. In light of those comments I'd say that's why they offered it as a kit and not as part of the standard GTS OR a stand alone model (marketing constraints around what was to come).
    - Winter White XR6 Sprint #141 with 3M Carbon tint & Koya SF-06 19" silver machined-face rims; original PZeros -

  14. #20
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Holden have to approve anything HSV do which means it has pass the same level of validation and compliance as a SV6.

    Without giving too much away in its current format W507 would fail Holden validation on a number of levels.

    This is from inside HSV not Walkinshaw. Walkinshaw actually grenaded engines trying to get 507 to work, under Bonner temps are beyond acceptable for a Holden backed product.

    It simply wouldn't get to market as a factory vehicle.

    One clue to this is the need for a stronger driveline for the W1 with the LS9 which makes less power and torque than the W507 kit.

    There's science to this, Walkinshaw can't do anything under the HSV banner without Holden signing it off.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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