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Thread: VW Dieselgate engineer gets 3 years.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by defective View Post
    Chain of responsibility means it could quite easily happen here. Well, maybe not qld because workplace health and safety is 20 years behind everyone else but technically it's certainly possible.
    Chain or Responsibility is specific to the transport industry, CoR consists of fatigue management and mass and dimensions - https://www.nhvr.gov.au/safety-accre...responsibility

    And Queensland has been on-board with the same OHS legislation as the rest of the country since 2012 (except W.A. and Victoria - although the National WHS (OHS) legislation is based on the Victorian OHS legislation)

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    Burnout (16th September 2017)

  3. #12
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
    Absolutely, your moral compass will often be swayed by the reality of mortgages, mouths to feed and improper influence in the workplace. All well and good for us to comment from the comfort of our keyboards but unless we're in that situation we don't know exactly how we'd deal with it.
    100% RW. Ive worked in that bully "my way or the highway" and "whatever it takes" culture. You disagree. You clean out your desk. Not easy to do when you've family/mortgages etc
    As a Pink Floyd fan I get mad when I see vegans eating pudding.

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    4Vman (29th August 2017)

  5. #13
    James. defective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Chain or Responsibility is specific to the transport industry, CoR consists of fatigue management and mass and dimensions - https://www.nhvr.gov.au/safety-accre...responsibility

    And Queensland has been on-board with the same OHS legislation as the rest of the country since 2012 (except W.A. and Victoria - although the National WHS (OHS) legislation is based on the Victorian OHS legislation)
    QLD had been on board with it, but it's certainly not enforced as it should be.

    I used cor as an example because it's part of my job so it's the first thing I think off.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  6. #14
    Validated User Road_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    100% RW. Ive worked in that bully "my way or the highway" and "whatever it takes" culture. You disagree. You clean out your desk. Not easy to do when you've family/mortgages etc
    I'm in it right now. Add to that said bully is also a compulsive liar and is 6'6" and it is difficult. I have an iron in the fire however so for the time being I'm keeping my powder dry.

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    Elks (8th September 2017)

  8. #15
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    100% RW. Ive worked in that bully "my way or the highway" and "whatever it takes" culture. You disagree. You clean out your desk. Not easy to do when you've family/mortgages etc
    This is my point.

    No morals compromised, just ethics.

    Im struggling to see why he should get jail for following instructions of his employer.

    Surely the company should bare responsibility for their ethics.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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    GTF449 (29th August 2017)

  10. #16
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor View Post
    Chain or Responsibility is specific to the transport industry, CoR consists of fatigue management and mass and dimensions - https://www.nhvr.gov.au/safety-accre...responsibility

    And Queensland has been on-board with the same OHS legislation as the rest of the country since 2012 (except W.A. and Victoria - although the National WHS (OHS) legislation is based on the Victorian OHS legislation)
    It's next to useless though. extremely rare to a company let alone an individual back up the chain be prosecuted. Meanwhile truck drivers are regularly hit with fines in the 10's of thousands for log book infringements, most which have their origin outside the drivers control. Loads not ready etc. But you have to get them there on time.
    As a Pink Floyd fan I get mad when I see vegans eating pudding.

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    defective (29th August 2017)

  12. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    It's next to useless though. extremely rare to a company let alone an individual back up the chain be prosecuted. Meanwhile truck drivers are regularly hit with fines in the 10's of thousands for log book infringements, most which have their origin outside the drivers control. Loads not ready etc. But you have to get them there on time.
    I was privvy to some VicPol discussions around CoR and they are very much aware of the lack of prosecutions bought against CoR legislation, so stay tuned - it is a powerful (albeit under-utilised) legislation

    They are chasing the top end of town as they have the power

  13. #18
    Tech Admin flappist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    Well they were estimating 1.200 additional early deaths due to the extra emissions, thats just for Europe.

    You could argue he got off lightly..



    http://news.mit.edu/2017/volkswagen-...hs-europe-0303
    These people would not be related to those who assured us the Barrier Reef would be gone by 2015 or that the dam in east coast Australia would never fill or that implementing the open zone trial in NT would lead to a blood bath on the roads with the highest death toll in the country?
    A velocitatem terram

    Google-Fu, the ancient snowflake art of knowing little, understanding less but believing anything they find on Google as the word of God.

  14. #19
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    originally, this person was charged with conspiracy, which is a felony and carries a much longer sentence.
    So turning on his superiors in the conspiracy is the only way to get a lesser sentence.

    See, this issue moved form diesels that pretended to meet US emission regs to one of a
    company conspiring to conceal evidence, that it systematically lied about the company's
    diesel emission strategy and systems that detected the start of a test to get complying data.

    It's one thing for a company to develop systems in error but in this case, it was systematic fraud
    and lying to government bodies about the true nature of the strategy and multiple attempts at
    deflecting the investigation into why those vehicles seemed to have unusually high emissions.
    Last edited by jpd80; 31st August 2017 at 05:07 PM.

  15. #20
    Validated User Road_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    This is my point.

    No morals compromised, just ethics.

    Im struggling to see why he should get jail for following instructions of his employer.

    Surely the company should bare responsibility for their ethics.
    At the end of the day we're talking about bizzaro yank law here, but I do note that this guy "was at it" right up to his neck. It would be hard for the judge to overlook that.

    Even here in little old seccession-ville, the law gives you an out, but only to a certain degree and only if the judge sees things the same way you do (presuming the 'Nuremburg Defence' is used)

    31.Lawful authority

    (1)A person is not criminally responsible for an act done, or an omission made, in any of the following circumstances —

    (a)in execution of the law;
    (b)in obedience to the order of a competent authority which the person is bound by law to obey, unless the order is manifestly unlawful.

    (2)Whether an order is or is not manifestly unlawful is a question of law.

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