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Thread: 2018 Supercars Season. Could contain results.

  1. #81
    Senior Member DoctorCleveland's Avatar
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    Holden teams upset over ZB Commodore kit cost

    By Mark Fogarty
    Speedcafe.com
    Saturday 18th November, 2017 - 6:00am

    Holden teams are up in arms over the cost of Triple Eight-supplied ZB Commodore body kits, now projected to be close to $50,000 per car.

    Most of the independent Lion squads are protesting because they believe factory backed Triple Eight is exploiting its Holden-sanctioned monopoly on the new racing panels.

    Triple Eight boss Roland Dane maintains he is charging a fair price to recoup the seven-figure investment he has made in the design, tooling and production of the bespoke parts needed to reskin a VF racer.

    Speedcafe.com has learned that the row has been simmering since before the Vodafone Gold Coast 600, where the other Holden team bosses and senior Supercars executives met with Dane to try to thrash out a more affordable deal.

    But the talks ended in a stalemate, with Dane refusing to lower the price, and no progress has been made since the stormy summit towards some sort of cost relief.

    Holden has been dragged into the dispute, with calls for Fishermans Bend to subsidise the price of at least the initial supply of ZB body kits.

    Allied concerns about the availability of the separate kit of production pressings also required to convert a VF to a ZB have been allayed by Holden, which has secured an extra advance supply from Germany ahead of the new imported Commodore road car’s launch in February.

    Speedcafe.com revealed two months ago that teams upgrading to the ZB racer look were facing a bill of more than $40,000 per car for more than 30 new inner and outer pieces.

    The Holden parts are expected to cost around $10,000 per car, while the Triple Eight components were preliminarily priced at more than $30,000 a set.

    But since then, Holden teams report that the anticipated final cost of the ZB aero kit and other racing replacement panels will be nearer $50,000, taking the total conversion cost for a single car to close to $60,000.

    Dissenting Holden team bosses question Dane’s assertion that the cost of bringing the ZB body kit to production, along with funding the new model’s homologation, is up to $1.5 million.

    Their own estimates range from $300,000 to $800,000, leading to the widespread conviction that Triple Eight is profiteering.

    The source of the dispute is that Holden granted Triple Eight Race Engineering exclusive rights to the IP and sale of the ZB body kit as part of the deal to take over as the Holden Racing Team.

    To achieve a big cut in its Supercars budget, Holden handed over all responsibility for homologating the ZB racer to Triple Eight in return for it becoming the sole supplier of the body kits with the discretion to set pricing.

    Previously, Holden funded the whole homologation process, including engineering support, and provided moulds to Holden teams to produce their own composite replica panels and aero parts.

    Until the Commodore ceased local manufacture late last month, the car-maker also had ready access to slightly spoiled production body panels, which could be intercepted on the assembly line and supplied to teams at no or low cost.

    Now the production pressings still used in the ZB racer have to be sourced from the factory in Germany, increasing their cost to Holden and, consequently, the teams.

    Dane has remained unswayed since the Surfers stand-off, which was held on the Saturday of the GC600 and also attended by Supercars CEO James Warburton, CFO Shane Howard and Supercars Commission chairman Steve Horne.

    Warburton had previously clashed with Dane over his efforts to broker a better deal for the other Holden teams.

    Dane denied there had been a general uprising among the Holden teams over the cost of the ZB body kit, asserting there was only a single dissenter at the Surfers talks.

    “All the Holden teams met to discuss panel supply,” he told Speedcafe.com.

    “Only one team was concerned about the cost. One person was stirring it up.

    “I believe we’ve now resolved it. The majority have accepted the cost.”

    However, other Holden team chiefs contradicted Dane, confirming there was general discontent.

    “The teams are pretty pissed off about it,” a Holden team owner told Speedcafe.com.

    It is understood the only Holden teams that haven’t rebelled are Tekno Autosports, which has a customer car deal with Triple Eight, and Garry Rogers Motorsport, which reportedly has a separate arrangement to be the authorised panel repairer for southern states squads.

    The only concession at the GC600 meeting was that an approach would be made to Holden to pay for the initial batch of body kits to convert their VFs to ZBs.

    As far as Speedcafe.com can determine, Holden has made it clear it will not subsidise the cost of either the racing body kits or the package of production panels.

    However, Holden has ensured the availability of the required imported body panels by sending its motor sport consultant Peter Harker to Opel in Germany to secure supplies.

    Production panels were so difficult to source initially that Dane had to resort to getting early examples from a Vauxhall dealer friend in the UK to begin construction of the prototype ZB racer many months ahead of production.

    If unresolved, the resistance to the cost of Triple Eight’s body kit could slow the other Holden teams switch to the ZB look.
    "I'm a pretty proud driver of the Ford Falcon." - Mark Winterbottom.

  2. #82
    Aka Captain Slow TS50's Avatar
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    https://www.speedcafe.com/2017/11/18...rs-retirement/

    Bright announces full-time Supercars retirement
    Mark Fogarty
    By MARK FOGARTY
    SATURDAY 18TH NOVEMBER, 2017 - 9:05PM
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    Jason Bright
    Supercars veteran Jason Bright will retire from full-time racing after next week’s Coates Hire Newcastle 500 amid moves to untangle his entry from Prodrive Racing Australia.
    Bright, who at 44 is Supercars’ eldest regular driver, has confirmed to Speedcafe.com that he is quitting his active involvement to devote more time to his young family and expanding business.
    Uncertainty over the future of his contract with PRA, which is using his Racing Entitlements Contract (REC) to underpin the entry of its fourth Falcon FG X, is also a major factor in his decision.
    “There are plenty of reasons why,” Bright told Speedcafe.com.
    “I’ve had an extremely good career and I just think the time’s right.
    “This year we’ve made good progress, but I’m not quite where I want to be and I don’t want to stand in the way of any good young drivers coming in.
    “I’m happy with how I’ve gone over the years and I’ve had some great relationships with the teams I’ve driven for.”
    ‘Brighty’ will end his full-time Supercars career after 572 V8 championship starts (assuming he lines up for both 250km legs of the Newcastle 500) and 20 victories in races counting towards the title.
    He also won the non-championship 1998 Bathurst 1000 with Steven Richards.
    Bright, who is open to offers to co-drive in the endurance races next year, has no interest in fielding his own team.
    As PRA bids for one of Lucas Dumbrell Motorsport’s RECs to run Richie Stanaway as a fully fledged entry from next year, Bright’s licence has been targeted by Matt Stone Racing to promote Dunlop Super2 Series title contender Todd Hazelwood to the main game next year.
    Bright, who signed a two-year contract to field his Britek Motorsport entry under the PRA banner, was reticent about widespread speculation that the deal was at an impasse.
    “I can’t really go into that,” he said. “It’s not really my call.”
    He maintained that a possible sale or lease of his REC was dependent on the outcome of negotiations with PRA and ensuring that he wasn’t left liable to the financial penalties of his entry not being utilised.
    “I’m not going to run my own team,” he declared.
    “I have people interested in the REC, but at the moment it’s still contracted to PRA to run.
    “I need to do what’s right for me and my family, and to make sure the REC is going to get run next year and I’m not exposing myself to any risk.
    “I can’t go into where everything’s at at the moment because everything’s sort of out of my hands.”
    PRA is known to want to secure its own REC from the carve-up of LDM, which is in the midst of a takeover by sponsor/benefactor Phil Munday, contracting to a one-car customer Falcon FG X.
    Bright’s REC has been targeted by the backers of Matt Stone – the son of former Supercars powerhouse Stone Brothers Racing co-owner Jimmy – to promote Super2 young gun Todd Hazelwood to the main game.
    Stone’s move up would be funded by wealthy Touring Car Masters racer and iSeek co-founder Jason Gomersall and South Australian enthusiast businessman James Rosenberg.
    According to Bright, his availability next year as a co-driver will depend on where his REC ends up.
    “Obviously, I’m keen to still do some racing, but it’s not something I’ve put a lot of thought into yet,” he said.
    “I still have to sort out things with Prodrive because they have a contract to use my licence again next year and for me to drive as a co-driver when I retire from full-time racing.
    “So what happens with that will determine whether I’m available to co-drive anywhere else.”
    Brighty struggled until recently with his switch from Brad Jones Racing, where he scored three race wins in six years, to PRA this year, returning to the former Ford Performance Racing where he was successful in 2005-06.
    Despite recent gains, he made the decision to retire from full-time racing because of the uncertainty of his future as a driver and wanting to spend more time with his wife Lucy and their young children, Lennox and Jemima.
    Also making increasing demands on his time is his fast-expanding enterprise Taskforce, which is a reliable source for tradespersons.
    “This year I’ve been busier than ever,” he said.
    “It’s probably the busiest racing year I’ve had in the past decade and my business is booming.
    “I’m flat-out with that any time that I have spare from racing – and family life gets busier every year as well.”
    Melbourne-based Bright has raced for Garry Rogers Motorsport, Stone Brothers Racing, Holden Racing Team, PWR, FPR and Britek Motorsport in addition to BJR and PRA.
    He rates the highlights of his V8 career as his Bathurst victory and scoring BJR’s first two Supercars race wins at Barbagallo and Winton in quick succession in mid-2011, plus his and BJR’s emotional success in claiming the first Jason Richards Memorial Trophy at Pukekohe in 2013.
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  3. #83
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorCleveland View Post
    Holden teams upset over ZB Commodore kit cost

    By Mark Fogarty
    Speedcafe.com
    Saturday 18th November, 2017 - 6:00am

    Holden teams are up in arms over the cost of Triple Eight-supplied ZB Commodore body kits, now projected to be close to $50,000 per car.

    Most of the independent Lion squads are protesting because they believe factory backed Triple Eight is exploiting its Holden-sanctioned monopoly on the new racing panels.

    Triple Eight boss Roland Dane maintains he is charging a fair price to recoup the seven-figure investment he has made in the design, tooling and production of the bespoke parts needed to reskin a VF racer.

    Speedcafe.com has learned that the row has been simmering since before the Vodafone Gold Coast 600, where the other Holden team bosses and senior Supercars executives met with Dane to try to thrash out a more affordable deal.

    But the talks ended in a stalemate, with Dane refusing to lower the price, and no progress has been made since the stormy summit towards some sort of cost relief.

    Holden has been dragged into the dispute, with calls for Fishermans Bend to subsidise the price of at least the initial supply of ZB body kits.

    Allied concerns about the availability of the separate kit of production pressings also required to convert a VF to a ZB have been allayed by Holden, which has secured an extra advance supply from Germany ahead of the new imported Commodore road car’s launch in February.

    Speedcafe.com revealed two months ago that teams upgrading to the ZB racer look were facing a bill of more than $40,000 per car for more than 30 new inner and outer pieces.

    The Holden parts are expected to cost around $10,000 per car, while the Triple Eight components were preliminarily priced at more than $30,000 a set.

    But since then, Holden teams report that the anticipated final cost of the ZB aero kit and other racing replacement panels will be nearer $50,000, taking the total conversion cost for a single car to close to $60,000.

    Dissenting Holden team bosses question Dane’s assertion that the cost of bringing the ZB body kit to production, along with funding the new model’s homologation, is up to $1.5 million.

    Their own estimates range from $300,000 to $800,000, leading to the widespread conviction that Triple Eight is profiteering.

    The source of the dispute is that Holden granted Triple Eight Race Engineering exclusive rights to the IP and sale of the ZB body kit as part of the deal to take over as the Holden Racing Team.

    To achieve a big cut in its Supercars budget, Holden handed over all responsibility for homologating the ZB racer to Triple Eight in return for it becoming the sole supplier of the body kits with the discretion to set pricing.

    Previously, Holden funded the whole homologation process, including engineering support, and provided moulds to Holden teams to produce their own composite replica panels and aero parts.

    Until the Commodore ceased local manufacture late last month, the car-maker also had ready access to slightly spoiled production body panels, which could be intercepted on the assembly line and supplied to teams at no or low cost.

    Now the production pressings still used in the ZB racer have to be sourced from the factory in Germany, increasing their cost to Holden and, consequently, the teams.

    Dane has remained unswayed since the Surfers stand-off, which was held on the Saturday of the GC600 and also attended by Supercars CEO James Warburton, CFO Shane Howard and Supercars Commission chairman Steve Horne.

    Warburton had previously clashed with Dane over his efforts to broker a better deal for the other Holden teams.

    Dane denied there had been a general uprising among the Holden teams over the cost of the ZB body kit, asserting there was only a single dissenter at the Surfers talks.

    “All the Holden teams met to discuss panel supply,” he told Speedcafe.com.

    “Only one team was concerned about the cost. One person was stirring it up.

    “I believe we’ve now resolved it. The majority have accepted the cost.”

    However, other Holden team chiefs contradicted Dane, confirming there was general discontent.

    “The teams are pretty pissed off about it,” a Holden team owner told Speedcafe.com.

    It is understood the only Holden teams that haven’t rebelled are Tekno Autosports, which has a customer car deal with Triple Eight, and Garry Rogers Motorsport, which reportedly has a separate arrangement to be the authorised panel repairer for southern states squads.

    The only concession at the GC600 meeting was that an approach would be made to Holden to pay for the initial batch of body kits to convert their VFs to ZBs.

    As far as Speedcafe.com can determine, Holden has made it clear it will not subsidise the cost of either the racing body kits or the package of production panels.

    However, Holden has ensured the availability of the required imported body panels by sending its motor sport consultant Peter Harker to Opel in Germany to secure supplies.

    Production panels were so difficult to source initially that Dane had to resort to getting early examples from a Vauxhall dealer friend in the UK to begin construction of the prototype ZB racer many months ahead of production.

    If unresolved, the resistance to the cost of Triple Eight’s body kit could slow the other Holden teams switch to the ZB look.
    Not surprised one bit.

    While ever Holden owned the whole Homlogation process they made the composite tooling available to any team wanting to run VF.

    It allowed teams to source or manufacture their own parts.

    Giving Dane sole rights has created a monopoly and he's holding teams to ransom.

    I hope they tell him to fuck off and explore other shapes.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  5. #84
    Validated User VZTRT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    I hope they tell him to fuck off and explore other shapes.
    Would be good for the sport. Would be nice to see more different cars enter. But no one really seems to be interested.

  6. #85
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    In all honesty the other teams could buy 1 set and cast moulding tools off them for less then a set would cost and produce their own parts for 1/4 of what Roland wants.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  7. #86
    Aka Captain Slow TS50's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    In all honesty the other teams could buy 1 set and cast moulding tools off them for less then a set would cost and produce their own parts for 1/4 of what Roland wants.
    prob a little thing called IP Norm
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  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TS50 View Post
    prob a little thing called IP Norm
    Holden would have to give T8 sole control of the IP to block teams from using it.

    That would be a first if they did and sets a dangerous precedence.

    In the past HMS allowed any Holden team to copy the master bucks.

    As I understand it Roland paid for the tooling so he owns and controls it.

    Weather he can stop teams copying components or not would be a question for the solicitors.

    The ZB will be homologated.

    You can’t stop teams Manufacturing their own components.

    The teams have invested in their own composite facilities, if Roland gets too greedy he’ll force the other teams to find cheaper alternatives.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Holden would have to give T8 sole control of the IP to block teams from using it.

    That would be a first if they did and sets a dangerous precedence.

    In the past HMS allowed any Holden team to copy the master bucks.

    As I understand it Roland paid for the tooling so he owns and controls it.

    Weather he can stop teams copying components or not would be a question for the solicitors.

    The ZB will be homologated.

    You can’t stop teams Manufacturing their own components.

    The teams have invested in their own composite facilities, if Roland gets too greedy he’ll force the other teams to find cheaper alternatives.
    Roland is a very astute buisness man, you dont think he would have covered himself?
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  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TS50 View Post
    Roland is a very astute buisness man, you dont think he would have covered himself?
    Supercars would be nuts to let him have that much control.

    Raises an Interesting question, is IP approval granted to Supercars or individuals teams?

    Roland might be smart but he’ll have egg on his face if everyone else decides to stick with VF because ZB is too expensive.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  11. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Supercars would be nuts to let him have that much control.

    Raises and Interesting question, is IP approval granted to Supercars or individuals teams?
    or through the manufacturer
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