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Thread: Holden may block V8 to promote V6 in 2019

  1. #1
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Holden may block V8 to promote V6 in 2019

    https://www.speedcafe.com/2017/12/12...omote-v6-2019/

    Holden teams thinking of sticking with the tried-and-true V8 in the ZB Commodore rather than changing to the unproven twin-turbocharged V6 in 2019 may not get the choice.
    Supercars is still undecided about whether to allow the V8-powered ZB to continue to be eligible alongside the twin turbo V6 version, which Holden wants to be the only homologated variant once it is approved.
    There is even speculation that Holden will force Commodore teams to switch by blocking supplies of the Holden Motorsport five-litre V8, which is made by GM Racing in the USA.
    Speedcafe.com has learned that some Holden teams are resisting the change because the HMS V8 is a well-proven motor developed to a peak over nearly two decades and also because of ownership restrictions.
    The 3.6-litre twin-turbo V6, which has been co-developed by GM Racing and factory Holden team Triple Eight, will only be available to teams on an annual lease.
    Although it is claimed that the scheme will save teams money because the yearly lease fee per engine includes scheduled maintenance and replacement, with no development costs, some have complained that the arrangement makes the sale of cars more complicated.
    The teams will be unable to sell cars to Super2 teams with engines and a secondary lease program for second-division squads hasn’t, as far as Speedcafe.com understands, been considered yet.

    Triple Eight has been developing the new Holden V6 twin turbo using its Sandman
    The Holden twin-turbo V6 being developed for Supercars’ Gen2 rules by Triple Eight and GM Racing is a version of the motor used in the Cadillac ATS GT3 racer.
    It was due to be ready to be introduced this year along with the switch to the racing version of the new-look imported ZB Commodore, which replaces the discontinued locally produced VF next February.
    But development delays and difficulties led to Triple Eight homologating the ZB with the existing five-litre V8 for next season, when it will complete development by entering a TT V6-engined version as a ‘wild card’ at selected events.
    Holden is understood to be pushing for all Holden teams to adopt the TT V6 in 2019 to align with its top-spec ZB model, which is powered by a normally aspirated road-going version of the engine.
    There has been talk of Holden ending availability of new supplies of the HMS V8 to hasten the transition to the TT V6 from 2019, which is the last year of the company’s current commitment to Supercars.
    Although teams are able to develop and maintain the venerable V8 locally, the engines can only be bought through official Holden Motorsport channels.
    The motor is a bespoke Chev-based small block five-litre V8 developed specifically for Supercars by GM Racing in Detroit.
    It has a unique block and cylinder heads, which need factory replacements when worn out or modified too aggressively.
    Many Holden teams have pushed cylinder head development too far or run the engines too lean, requiring frequent rebuilds or new engines.
    Among the Holden teams planning to stick with the V8 after next year if allowed is Walkinshaw Andretti United, which has no interest in leasing engines via Triple Eight.
    WAU also has a proven engine department that develops front-running motors.
    Supercars hasn’t made a determination on whether to allow the two next-gen Commodore variants – known internally as ZB A and ZB B – to race concurrently.
    Supercars sporting and technical director David Stuart told Speedcafe.com that it hadn’t been decided if the twin-turbo V6-powered ZB’s homologation next year would supersede the V8 ZB’s eligibility.
    However, Stuart pointed out that the homologation of all current models – VF Commodore, FG X Falcon and L33 Nissan Altima – as well as the Mercedes AMG E63 and Volvo S60 remain valid until the Next Gen/Gen2 regulations expire at the end of 2020.
    “At moment, V8 ZB homologation will still stand, just as the Mercedes and Volvo homologations are still valid,” he told Speedcafe.com.
    Along with the different engines, Supercars technical staff have dubbed the two ZB racers A and B because their body kits will also vary enough to warrant re-testing for aerodynamic parity.
    The twin-turbo V6’s requirement for increased cooling will mean the ZB bodywork will need to be modified for extra air intakes and bonnet venting.
    The V8 ZB A’s official homologation aero test was conducted at the RAAF airfield at East Sale in Gippsland, southeast Victoria, last week.
    It was validated against the FG X Falcon and L33 Altima.
    The East Sale runway is a known quantity that provided correlatable downforce and drag measurements.
    “It’s long enough and good enough, and we have all the data from previous tests there,” Stuart said.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Got to hand it to Roland, he's a cunning business man.

    He stole Holden off Walkinshaw (who probably did a good job of losing them too), got the exclusive rights to sell the Peugeot body work, now exclusive rights to lease the TTV6 engine to the teams AND convinced Holden to block supply of the current engine block..

    Talk about putting the fox in charge of the chickens...

    If there was ever a time for Ford to pull their finger out and Homologate Mustang or Mondeo it's now.

    With Roland's Empirical Monopoly taking shape there'd be teams falling over each other to switch brands, if for nothing more then to have more control over their costs.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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    FTe217 (12th December 2017),GTF449 (12th December 2017),imike1 (16th December 2017),Perko (14th December 2017),Randel (12th December 2017),WASP (17th December 2017)

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    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    yep, I agree, he sure has the nous and why not if I was in his position But this will become a melting pot before the season starts.
    Watch this space I reckon.
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

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    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Word is Roland wants to block teams manufacturing the ZB with TTV6 too, i.e supply the whole car turn key.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  6. #5
    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    I don't mind its their with this problem But as mentioned pity we/Ford can't offer more as an alternative for other holden teams who'd gladly switch in principle.
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

  7. #6
    Senior Member Futura's Avatar
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    what Roland wants he will get.

    Ford needs to jump at this opportunity.

  8. #7
    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    yer yer, like thats going to happen. Love to be proven wrong.
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Futura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTe217 View Post
    yer yer, like thats going to happen. Love to be proven wrong.
    Roland or Ford?

  10. #9
    Senior Member Futura's Avatar
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    Roland's Supercars Series.

    Actually its got a nice ring to it.

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    You said it...

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