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Thread: Australia Day. WTF!!!!!

  1. #1
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    Australia Day. WTF!!!!!

    There is two things I am starting to dislike about the 26 of January.

    First are the Chinese made Aussie flags stuck to imported cars doing “laps of pride” and secondly the debate about the date.


    Inevitably this time of year sees the google search count on dates go through the roof. It’s a millennial thing so as you can look cool in any debate as you get to tell others how their understanding of the date is wrong.

    Ignore the fact that this is yet another politically correct minority attempt based on a social platform to give idiocy a voice. Yep social media has a lot to answer for as I am still recovering from flat earth.

    So I will admit with out google and with 3 decades past in Aust history, my understanding of the 26th is all about the first fleet.

    Capt Cook had indeed claimed NewHolland in the kings name but as most will appreciate, way back then possession was all the law.

    British occupancy doesn’t occur untill the first fleet and the process of colonisation.

    Is it invasion day? Yes it absolutely is.

    That was the way of the world. The weak inherited nothing. You fought for control of the land and those unable we driven off or killed. Most countries, most civilisation started out like that.

    Is that a reason to celebrate?

    That depends in your understanding of what colonisation meant to this country and the impact it would have leading up to federation.

    Many things in our legal system or our political system can be traced back to English heritage. The fact that our penal heritage plays a part in our DNA goes to our underdog mentality.

    We as citizens are not defined by names and dates. We can’t change the past. We have to recognise it, own it, but to be talking about changing the date; for who or what demographic!

    Who is offended here? Where is the coming from?

    I could understand it if this debate complimented us leaving the commonwealth, to become a republic, change the flag, but why the Union Jack is on the flag, colonisation and the birth of our society formally is what the date is about.


    If you have different understandings or value to that, thats great but selfish it’s not.

    Selfish is having a view about SSM when it doesn’t impact on you at all.

    Just clarifying a few points.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  3. #2
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    Aboriginal Leader Jacinta Nampijinpa Price says it best:

    "Being offended is a choice".

    A Very intersting listen;

    https://www.facebook.com/abcnews.au/...9423130465018/
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    If this is what we have to offer as a country, there is something wrong.

    If there was as much thought effort and energy spent on the homeless, worrying about meaningful improvements, being nice to one another in the now, the future would be better for it.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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    Validated User Road_Warrior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    British occupancy doesnít occur untill the first fleet and the process of colonisation.

    Is it invasion day? Yes it absolutely is.

    That was the way of the world. The weak inherited nothing. You fought for control of the land and those unable we driven off or killed. Most countries, most civilisation started out like that.

    Is that a reason to celebrate?

    That depends in your understanding of what colonisation meant to this country and the impact it would have leading up to federation.

    Many things in our legal system or our political system can be traced back to English heritage. The fact that our penal heritage plays a part in our DNA goes to our underdog mentality.

    We as citizens are not defined by names and dates. We canít change the past. We have to recognise it, own it, but to be talking about changing the date; for who or what demographic!

    Who is offended here? Where is the coming from?

    I could understand it if this debate complimented us leaving the commonwealth, to become a republic, change the flag, but why the Union Jack is on the flag, colonisation and the birth of our society formally is what the date is about.
    This is the most logical and unemotive view of the whole "change the date" bullshit argument I have read thus far. Well said.

  7. #5
    James. defective's Avatar
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    As someone with no vested interest in Australia Day, other than a handy day off work, I've been quite interested to follow the arguments.
    I seen a few fairly reasonably arguements to change it to a more suitable date, but the ones opposing it haven't actually put forward anything other than 'it happened years ago, get over it' or 'it wasn't us that did it, stop living in the past' or 'Ffs, we need to stop pandering to the loony left all the time'.

    It seems most are against moving the date simply because they want to be outraged about something, while moving the date wouldn't really affect them in the slightest.
    And while it may well only be a tiny percentage of the population that are truely traumatised by the current date (as opposed to the trendy offended hipsters that seem to be perpetually offended by something) I don't really see the issue in moving it.

    I've Been here since '08 and it still amazes me everyday how different the attitudes towards the indigenous are here compared to nz.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  8. #6
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    Define more suitable?

    This comes back to my point of not understanding why it’s on this day.

    There is no other suitable date provided people understand the significance of the date and the role the first fleet played.

    Colonisation of the country by the British starts the process. Like it or not, had the French landed, what Cook claimed in the name of the king would have made no difference. The French were in the bay, the way I was taught 30years ago, the formalisation becomes the acquirement. Possession as it was back then was the law. You fought, you killed, that is the way it was.

    Finding a alternative date where the BBQ and the cricket are suitable is at the top of most Australians lists for a public holiday.

    The sensitivity by fuckwits who are prepared to shaft their fellow Aussie at a moments notice, Aust day is every day. You don’t just be thankful on one day.

    Without colonisation and by the British, this country would be very very different.

    There is the the reason to celebrate the correct date. That event starts the process of where we are at today.

    That imiragration, the specific selection towards pardons and land serve both to set the path but also to remind us people lost out in the process.

    You can’t undo that. Moving the date doesn’t change what happens. It should serve to remind people of what’s impirtant.

    On this day we celebrate the way we treat each other, that we are all equal, that we all matter.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  10. #7
    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    Spot on Ian.
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

  11. #8
    James. defective's Avatar
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    I had a big response typed out, but I have to admit I'm not really up with all the history, so il do some more reading about the subject first.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  12. #9
    T3/Sprint8 FTe217's Avatar
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    just curious defective if can be explained in short whats the diff in nz ?

    I feel Ian comes the ol school as its termed nowadays, include me as well.
    Talking from our end thats what we were taught at primary school.
    It had nothing to do about "killing" per say but obviously "hostilities" as any venture would have encountered back in those un chartered days.
    I suppose if the indigenous people in those days had education it may have been a different beginning but the fact of the matter is the English being Cook claimed the Island Australia on xyz day - this I don't understand changing history of the day it happened or logged.
    I can understand and sympathise on the true people that are related or linked of their early family tragedies/loss/fellow people but what I can't stand is the band wagon support this has built up and most things in the modern world.
    Fact is as Ian quotes, the way it was back then.
    This is how man grew/ventured/claimed/ruled - every single indigenous culture or otherwise has suffered by conquer, surely the Polynesians have similar fates.
    There has to be a time when its shouted enough is enough - everything doesn't have to change whatsoever.
    Its an important day imo, the day our country was claimed and the rule began under the English.
    Its not perfect nor is anywhere else but a guideline was laid and look what its become.
    Without knowing all the specifics good and bad we support our Indigenous people through many of us tax payers.
    Not even sure if this is a right or wrong way but for sure I expect it could be managed a hell of a lot better than its had in the past but thats a huge discussion not for now.
    Soon, NYE will be contested for not everyone has a HNY, Christmas gets challenged because muslim faiths think otherwise etcetcetc.....
    YNWA ! off to CL 2018.
    Sydney is Sky Blue HAL Premiers/Champions 2017 - the Double.

  13. #10
    James. defective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTe217 View Post
    just curious defective if can be explained in short whats the diff in nz ?
    .....
    Treaty of waitangi is the single biggest difference.

    Large parts of nz that were bought/stolen/conquered back in the day were handed back to Maori ownership, some of the tribes in nz have some huge business interests going, ngai tahu is one of the richest I believe.
    Just recently the new govt had to pay 350 million in treaty reparations, which is an ongoing settlement payment.

    It's basically giving Maori the resources to be on a level playing field as much as possible, and the ability to help themselves.

    Nz has similar issues to Aus with Maori having higher incarceration rates, lower education and higher unemployment, and it's certainly not perfect but it's a step in the right direction.

    Over here whenever indigenous issues come up it seems to be almost treated with contempt by many.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

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