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Thread: Mustang with IRS - and it's not Control Blade

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
    That IRS looks nothing like control blade...
    Forgive me for being really stupid on this but, given the width,

    and shape of components, location of stabilizer bar,

    could this be a D3 IRS fitted to the Mustang?


    Or perhaps an upgraded version of Kuga IRS?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Forgive me for being really stupid on this but, given the width,

    and shape of components, location of stabilizer bar,

    could this be a D3 IRS fitted to the Mustang?


    Or perhaps an upgraded version of Kuga IRS?
    I'd say that's a definite no for the Kuga's IRS. The mountings and hardware there are all too heavy duty to come from a smaller car that is derived from a bum dragger. This unit appears to have two decent sized diff mount bushings and probably another larger one we can't see. Those lower control arms are very substantial units with the coil spring seat deeply recessed into the control arm. This would reduce the amount of available travel for an SUV suspension system, which is not desirable for an SUV but perfectly acceptable for a sports car or sedan.

    I'd also say an almost definite no for being a modified D3 IRS unit by virtue of the fact that the D3 is also FWD-biased, and has stamped steel components like the Falcon's control blade to reduce costs. The IRS unit out of the Toreass SHO could certainly do the job, but this seems to have been custom designed for this application. Look at the way the exhaust snakes under the diff assembly.

    No, I think what's happened here is they have dragged the stillborn S197 IRS unit out of the engineering shed, modernised it a bit and added some stamped steel components to keep costs down, and used that design. There was an expose`done by some Mustang enthusiasts in the US some time ago about an IRS unit found in a warehouse, I'll try and locate the pics so we can compare them to these new ones.

  3. #13
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    Also, I think a rehash of DEW98 can be ruled out because the DEW98 used coilover shocks and relatively simple alloy control arms that attached to a subframe, whereas this one does not appear to use coilovers. Can't tell if there is a subframe involved or not from these pics though.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
    The clincher for the Falcon is going to be whether or not the new Mustang has a double wishbone front suspension array with alloy control arms. If it doesnt...it's bye bye RWD Falcon come 2016.
    Yeah its got the Falcon's front "pivotal" setup, which was borrowed from Territory, according to one US source. That same source mentioned control blade as well so I'm not sure if things have changed since then for the front end.

    Lincoln were playing around with a Boss 5.0 Falcon - with the wick turned right up, mind you - and they were going through components like no tomorrow, so yeah, I don't think they've taken a liking to CB.
    CB was originally meant for fwd vehicles and was used on BA to save 20kg, and seeing that the next Mustang is said to shed a lot of weight I'm not sure they'll need CB at all. Ten years on and we still have the diff bush problem so it's time they went for something that may have half a chance of handling the GT500's power.
    “…The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man are disgraceful to ourselves only…How one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades….A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world; the world’s Maker had ordered so." - Thomas Carlyle

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    Yeah its got the Falcon's front "pivotal" setup, which was borrowed from Territory, according to one US source. That same source mentioned control blade as well so I'm not sure if things have changed since then for the front end.
    I think I know who you're referring to (and where it was posted?) and this was the same source I saw the "DEW14" mentioned for the first time. But yeah, one thing is for certain: the CB's hatred for diff bushes won't sit well for Euro or US buyers; it was an emergency option adapted from something else that has had its day IMO.

    Anyhow, I've found those piccies.



    The full story and other pics is located here:

    http://www.drivingenthusiast.net/sec-blog/?p=11329

    And a pic from Leftlanenews from the other day for comparison:



    Obviously the components look different because they are - you'd like to think over the course of 10 years since the S197's IRS was designed Ford would have improved on it in some way shape or form. The bulky aluminium carrier frame has gone in favour of a cheaper and smaller steel unit. But the fundamentals of the hardpoints appear to be the same.

  6. #16
    Yeah that was GMI, Dave.
    That looks more like it. The Mustang's rear needs to please the drag racing community who aren't convinced that an IRS is robust enough - a CB is the last thing they'd want, and may well ruin the Mustang's reputation. CB is a gamble Fomoco won't and shouldn't take. They can afford to build it right, every bit of it.
    “…The lies (Western slander) which well-meaning zeal has heaped round this man are disgraceful to ourselves only…How one man single-handedly, could weld warring tribes and wandering Bedouins into a most powerful and civilized nation in less than two decades….A silent great soul, one of that who cannot but be earnest. He was to kindle the world; the world’s Maker had ordered so." - Thomas Carlyle

  7. #17
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    Having spoken to someone on the original S197 project, I can say that picture is not of the ill fated S197 IRS
    that unit was most definitly a CB IRS and based on a heavily modified and powered version of Focus CB IRS..

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
    Having spoken to someone on the original S197 project, I can say that picture is not of the ill fated S197 IRS
    that unit was most definitly a CB IRS and based on a heavily modified and powered version of Focus CB IRS..
    Which one are we talking about here? The one fitted to the mule or the old one strapped to the pallet? I'm not sure anyone can categorically say the IRS unit mounted in the Mustang mule is a variation of Control Blade because the photo doesn't show that far up into the subframe to show the 'control blades'. Someone somewhere else said it was a CB IRS but not like the Falcon's and not like any other CB IRS. So it would seem the only ones who do know are Ford engineers...

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road_Warrior View Post
    Which one are we talking about here? The one fitted to the mule or the old one strapped to the pallet?
    The one on the Pallet.

    I'm not sure anyone can categorically say the IRS unit mounted in the Mustang mule is a variation of Control Blade because the photo doesn't show that far up into the subframe to show the 'control blades'. Someone somewhere else said it was a CB IRS but not like the Falcon's and not like any other CB IRS. So it would seem the only ones who do know are Ford engineers...
    CB IRS is Ford's standard in IRS.
    CD3 Fusion, D3 Taurus changed to it in later versions when the shock towers were moved outboard.
    it's the choice of units and is based on BMW IRS.

  10. #20
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    However this unit in the mule has alloy parts which no CB IRS has. The mounting architecture also appears to be completely different to a CB IRS as the exhaust has had to be routed under it, rather than over it like other Ford cars with Control Blade. This could be due to the Mustang requirement for a compact unit that doesnt mess with the back seat coupe layout...

    In any event, it looks good. I wonder how easy it would be to fit it to an FG, or if Ford have tried. Hell, there could be FG mules running around with this IRS unit now and we would never know.

    EDIT: For completeness, here's a drawing of the BA's Control Blade IRS (from Trueblueford):




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