Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: Raptor Engine choice.

  1. #1
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,288

    Raptor Engine choice.

    The world media is still talking about the engine which I personally find disappointing.

    Having gained an appreciation for the 150 version, listened to what those owners say, I have come to appreciate its cult, hero, conquest status.

    In the US itís offerred with a bespoke engine offering 75 hp and 40 lb ft over its base.

    When i saw 10kws and 30 nm, my first reaction was this is an engine upgrade more suited to wildtrack.

    I am acclimatised to the FPV value matrix or mantra.

    What makes a FP product a FP product. At this stage itís a work in progress from branding perspective.

    What my eyes saw was a great looking truck, from an aspirational perspective a brand I want to be part of as I have been in the past.

    This is where I am a victim of Ford Australiaís sensational range of engines. This is the context, what Iím used to day in day out.

    Here is a 4 door product with performance branding, culture and pedigree, that potentially makes less compromises in my search for my next daily driver if it only got closer to the levels I am used to.

    In this example I think there are two engine choices that fit my requirements.

    The coyote V8 under the hood of the mustang, I found to be all you need. Itís about the same as my current turbo 6 but brings with it a willingness to rev and a glorious note.
    The other is the TT6 in base form.

    I donít care for the suspension side of raptor. I now insist it has it but itís not something I will exploit in the same way I insisted my GT needed a level of straight line performance. Itís not being dragged every day so itís the engineering cost of understanding your product while knowing its not likely to be tested.

    I canít help feel there is a missed opportunity here to capture a portion of the market that is used to a level of performance butbyet ready to try something new. The FPV customer, the HSV customer who is seeing this new world and realises its time to give it a good.

    We have to be met half way though.

    The difference for me is this car is a great effort and I know itís going to be well received come drive impressions.

    I am reasonably confident some will say it needs more engine and for me thatís back too far to the future.
    I have been there done that. I see it as a hero product without a hero engine.

    Does anyone feel the same way?

    Any of you XR8 and up members feel there was an opportunity lost here?
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  2. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to HSE2 For This Useful Post:

    4Vman (15th February 2018),Elks (15th February 2018),FTe217 (15th February 2018),Futura (15th February 2018),jpd80 (15th February 2018),Perko (15th February 2018),Randel (18th February 2018),WASP (16th February 2018)

  3. #2
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,974
    As a convert to the SUV / Twin cab ways, especially for a daily. But I think that Ford have missed by a mile with Raptor. It's the classic 'Taking a knife to a gun fight'. Then telling me I need to understand or I need to be educated without providing and evidence or data to back it up, is Trump like offensive.


    The unknown here is the transmission. the 10 speed & a bit of tune knocked over a second off the 0-400m in the mustang. So potentially the performance is better than 157kw suggests. But FoA dont publish 0-100 or 0-400m times so who knows. It's a leap of faith on a 90K "Sports Utility" that will be lucky to do 0-100 in under 11 seconds.
    As a Pink Floyd fan I get mad when I see vegans eating pudding.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Elks For This Useful Post:

    FTe217 (15th February 2018),HSE2 (15th February 2018),jpd80 (15th February 2018)

  5. #3
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19,955
    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    As a convert to the SUV / Twin cab ways, especially for a daily. But I think that Ford have missed by a mile with Raptor. It's the classic 'Taking a knife to a gun fight'. Then telling me I need to understand or I need to be educated without providing and evidence or data to back it up, is Trump like offensive.


    The unknown here is the transmission. the 10 speed & a bit of tune knocked over a second off the 0-400m in the mustang. So potentially the performance is better than 157kw suggests. But FoA dont publish 0-100 or 0-400m times so who knows. It's a leap of faith on a 90K "Sports Utility" that will be lucky to do 0-100 in under 11 seconds.
    It will take the Mags to performance test it because i doubt even Ford Performance will talk bitumen performance let alone standing start.

    but ill take a stab and say with the benefit of the 10 speed 0-100 in mid 8's, probably needs to be around mid 5's to get me excited.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4Vman For This Useful Post:

    Futura (15th February 2018),Randel (18th February 2018)

  7. #4
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,974
    Mid 8's is 3 sec faster than a 3.2. Big gain.
    As a Pink Floyd fan I get mad when I see vegans eating pudding.

  8. #5
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba
    Posts
    3,066
    I have the pleasure of both sides. I have the current Ranger, but also the XR8. The Raptor was a chance to combine the both. The easy of use of the dual cab, with regards to clearance and fitting the family. However, the performance improvement and driving pleasure that I get out of the XR8. Instead it falls somewhere inbetween. Nice try but not a complete enough package for me to give up my two cars. A shame really, because I really like the looks and would have seriously considered trading in both cars for one.
    Ford Heritage : KF Laser, XF Ute, XH Tradesman Ute, EL Futura, AU2 Ute, XD Ute, XH XR6 Ute, BA XR8 Ute, SX Territory, BF XR8 Sedan, EB2 S XR6, EB1 S XR8, WQ Fiesta, FGX XR8, PX2 Ranger

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Perko For This Useful Post:

    HSE2 (15th February 2018),Randel (18th February 2018)

  10. #6
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,288
    I am not just talking about that aspect of performance.

    In my eyes, Ford Performance is FPV and as such the stated numbers are important.

    We all know or suspect the drive impression will be good, but what happens at the BBQ? At the pub.

    You don’t have look far into the various comments by punters to read, it’s a cool car until a Prius beats you off the lights.

    The VXR 230kw AWD caradvice reckons is in the 7 seconds. In the same way, that’s a lot of performance missing for a theoretical move to the new model from SS.

    Let’s take my sprint.

    I use daily a fraction of its performance but it’s enough to warrant the justification of purchase.

    With raptor, it’s like the SUV arguement or rather justification. One day I might use that potential not all day every day.

    Raptors in the states are owned by people with serious car collections. Supercar collections. They get in their raptor and feel just as home because it’s sufficient and justifiable in image terms.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  11. #7
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba
    Posts
    3,066
    Your second last word Ian is the key...image. The Raptor has an image, the SS had an image, FPV had an image and expectation and so on. The cold hard facts is that the Raptor has an image and expectation that evolves from its past. For me it does not fully meet that, regardless of whether I can fully obtain its full potential. It will be up to the buyer whether they think that it lives up to their expectations. It doesn't for me, so Elks won't be getting a call from me about finance (sorry mate).
    Ford Heritage : KF Laser, XF Ute, XH Tradesman Ute, EL Futura, AU2 Ute, XD Ute, XH XR6 Ute, BA XR8 Ute, SX Territory, BF XR8 Sedan, EB2 S XR6, EB1 S XR8, WQ Fiesta, FGX XR8, PX2 Ranger

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Perko For This Useful Post:

    HSE2 (16th February 2018),Randel (18th February 2018)

  13. #8
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,288
    There are some interesting comments on Fords Facebook page.

    It’s starts off really well then someone raises the engine and all hell breaks loose.

    The points made here regarding the FB brand, right through to you have to drive it first and then the guys wanting to place an orders. All bases are covered opinion wise.

    Negative engine comments tend to get the most likes.

    Who is the car aimed at?

    Current wildtrack owners? Well it’s a step up for them.
    Current Hilux owners. Doesn’t matter what model, it’s a step up for those guys and a win for Ford. Conquest sales will come from this product.

    I don’t need to drive this car.

    It’s going to be good. It’s going to be like our time in the ecoboost Falcon. I loved that car. The front end was at the time one of the best falcons I had sampled. It needed more suspension for my tastes but it was an excellent engine that didn’t sell.

    I loved it. Wouldn’t buy it. Would recommend it, but wouldn’t buy it.

    Our mustang review, same deal. Down on what I am used to but loved it, would recommend it, but would own it also.

    Raptor, I reckon I could get into it provided it’s on road calibration isn’t a boat. Let me take it down the Sidling Targa stage and then I will let you know.

    The engine, twin turbo 4 tuned for response with 500nm. That number there is key.

    Match that to the miracle box that is 10 speeds and you also bank up efficiency points.

    There is no bad here. Don’t read bad into this.


    Would I buy it? No.

    It’s performance will stop me. It’s just too far away from what ford have been building. Yes that was then and this is now but I get 1 life. I don’t take backwards steps in purchases.

    The mistake here is the kw count from a brand called Perfromance. There is a kw-dollar equation that’s been the currency of justification for 15 years.

    Let’s not kid ourselves. What about Bronco, what about Everest?

    Bronco just has to have a V8 in it. They just have to but they won’t.

    10 and 30 as an improvement puts a lot of pressure on price. I wouldn’t pay 60k for that.

    This is a sensible engine. I dont do sensible shoes. A hero brand needs a hero engine. This is a base engine, a purchase that’s not future proofed at the tipping point of the market.

    There was potential here to capture some HSV and Holden Ute dwellers where the engine doesn’t need to be exactly what they were used to as the experience of change would be sufficient for the compromise. People who look at Silverado and think I don’t need that big but a high performance engine in a truck that looks this good, has this pedigree, all bets are off.

    You offer a mustang engine as an option here, watch the sales split be dominated. It’s going to be an 80k plus car. It won’t be cheap but then again what is these days.

    I would seriously buy this over the mustang which tells you straightline Perfromance isn’t the highest priority even for me but you also can’t be so far away from where I am right now. Not when there was alternatives to pick from.

    Image wise, brand wise, it needs to satisfy me as a premium consumer and until then all I see is another product not aimed at me.

    And that’s ok. I understand, I just feel like they never stopped and thought. V8 sales have dominated Mustang, dominated Holden’s closing as well. Ya just sort of hoped against hope the xr8 experience might have equated to, is there enough volume here to make an option work.

    Is this an opportunity missed.

    It is for me.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  14. #9
    Sir Car Reviews Franco Cozzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Country Victoria
    Posts
    4,403
    https://www.4x4australia.com.au/revi...ine-transplant

    This place in QLD appears to be making what people want.

    Unfortunately after a fucking nightmare spending 40+ hours on a new Chevrolet Silverado which wouldn't start converted by the lovely Performax who wouldn't help their customer after spending $100K+

    I wouldn't touch converted cars with a 100ft pole.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Franco Cozzo For This Useful Post:

    Randel (18th February 2018)

  16. #10
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    19,955
    The more i think about it the more i think Ford Performance is a brand without a visibly defined vision or mission.

    What's their brand charter?

    FPV had a clearly defined vision and a mission, their products aligned with a set of beliefs and criteria, they executed their brand charter very well.

    If you go to the Ford Performance website its confusing, who are they? Are they a parts retailer? Car brand? Enthusiasts center?
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •