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Thread: Raptor Engine choice.

  1. #11
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    In contrast lets look at AMG:

    Driven by Performance.

    We’ve spent the last 50 years being driven by a powerful conviction. From the very start, AMG has been characterized by the courage and passion of its founders Hans Werner Aufrecht and Erhard Melcher. Then as now, we question everything and accept no limits. We are constantly seeking the next challenge. We call this: Driving Performance. All over the world, we have found likeminded individuals and, together with them, we celebrate this inner drive that breaks through every barrier – and makes every single AMG a statement of Driving Performance. #AMG50Years
    https://www.mercedes-amg.com/en.html

    Every part of their site exudes who they are, what they do, and how they do it.

    They have a clear vision, they appear to have a detailed brand charter and are closely aligned to it in every facet.



    In contrast:

    http://performance.ford.com/home.html

    Ford Performance's website is a mess, is it a news feed? Online store?

    Who are they?
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  2. #12
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Who are they?
    And that Norm is their current problem. At a management level Ford do not know who they are now and who they want to be in the future. They are trying to cover everything and in the process not building a brand image. Scary stuff for such a large company.
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  3. #13
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perko View Post
    And that Norm is their current problem. At a management level Ford do not know who they are now and who they want to be in the future. They are trying to cover everything and in the process not building a brand image. Scary stuff for such a large company.
    I think that is our perspective based on where we sit.

    I think Ford US are very comfortable with who they are, to a less of an extent in the UK too, because to be honest the US is 90% of their focus from a performance perspective.

    I think we're an annoying outpost that till closure was decided many years ago has looked after itself very well.

    We're now clambering to reset the brand and for the most part making a meal of it.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  5. #14
    Validated User WASP's Avatar
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    I have little doubt the Ranger Raptor will perform well with the 10 speed. Will it be good enough for a Ford Performance branded product is yet another matter.

    Perception is key and when it doesn’t align creates an almost inescapable problem Ford will need to address. Being a Ford enthusiast I am trusting somewhat in Ford's founder philosophy of “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” The company has a long pattern of behavior in making decisions that on the surface appear to conflict with consumer sentiment.

    Strategically, this is a tactic designed to gain market leadership and rapid momentum, opposed to following the trend and creating a ‘me to’ statement. That strategy also means that sometimes they may get it horribly wrong and be forced to revise or retract from their original position. In this case, I am anticipating over time they may need to with RR. Proof will be in the pudding. Let’s see what pre-order numbers and waiting list looks like.

    Personally I have no issue with the diesel 4 pot engine choice if there was an alternative higher capacity offering. The current engine choice will no doubt meet the needs of a large majority of buyers, for the intended markets. A V6 or even a V8 would have been the obvious aspirational choices and I suspect would have made the difference between considering one, or just getting the cheque book out and signing up on the waiting list.

    My other suspicion is the new CEO, Jim Hackett has played a key role in this, potenially abandoning any higher output or bespoke versions which may have been under development. This is why we are seeing the engineers involved in the project defending the decision and hoping it will stick.

    Of course, common sense suggests the Raptor’s most important attribute is not intended to be engine performance. That said you can’t ignore the elephant in the room. By the very nature of such an over the top product offering, as is the Raptor brand to use an engine that represents a more conservative choice creates an outcome which conflicts with the buyers perception of how that product should have been represented.

    As a FPV owner, the Raptor with a high performance engine ticks a lot of boxes. An Everest version even more for me. It’s possible that after the F6X flop that Ford are gun shy about introducing a high output SUV that is thirsty at the pump, or needs premium fuel. That’s understandable as we are a critical bunch in this country. They are counting on consumers not wanting to feed a large petrol guzzling truck and opting for the practicality and fuel efficiency of a smaller capacity torquey diesel. Ford want your Raptor to be capable of taking you anywhere, anytime and in the most rugged conditions. It is not intended to be treated as a collectable only to be used on special occasions. That is typically how we have used our FPV’s and HSV’s in this country.
    Lifetime proud Ford Falcon enthusiast and owner of the following models XR, XY, XB, XC, XD, EB, AU, BA and FG.
    Mustang enthusiast and current owner of a 1969 Mach 1 351 4V 4-barrel M-Code

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    Ian I can't see too many Wildtrak owners wanting to upgrade in the short term.

    Going by the pics it loses some bits out of the Wildtrak like Adaptive cruise control, the roller top, front sensors and so on.

    For the performance gain on paper it hardly seems worth while when you consider the $25,000 premium.

    It will be interesting to see what the after market does too, as standard PX2 bullbars, snorkels etc wont fit this car. Will they all rush out to make products to suit? This will also define the people who buy it as 80% of Ranger 4x4's sold have some sort of after market part fitted. People who buy these cars love to mod them to their specific requirements. I'm guessing we will be lucky to see 500 of these utes sold a year... That figure doesn't support the R & D costs to make model specific parts.

    We also have to see what PX3 brings which should be released in the coming weeks (Supposedly they go in to build in June). It's going to be interesting to see if they continue using the 3.2 with the 6 speed or a detuned version of the 2.0 across the range, we know they can't use the Raptor spec engine in the XLT / Wildtrak unless they want an outcry!! If the 2.0 litre is as good as they say it should have been their bread and butter motor deleting the old 3.2 which is due for a refresh.
    Last edited by dash gt; 16th February 2018 at 04:37 PM.
    2017.5 FORD MONDEO TITANIUM DIESEL
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  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WASP View Post
    As a FPV owner, the Raptor with a high performance engine ticks a lot of boxes. An Everest version even more for me. It’s possible that after the F6X flop that Ford are gun shy about introducing a high output SUV that is thirsty at the pump, or needs premium fuel. That’s understandable as we are a critical bunch in this country. They are counting on consumers not wanting to feed a large petrol guzzling truck and opting for the practicality and fuel efficiency of a smaller capacity torquey diesel. Ford want your Raptor to be capable of taking you anywhere, anytime and in the most rugged conditions. It is not intended to be treated as a collectable only to be used on special occasions. That is typically how we have used our FPV’s and HSV’s in this country.
    You make sense on the F6X comment, but I think the biggest problem with that product was it looked too similar to the standard Territory Turbo. There was not enough differentiation to justify the price hike. The performance / brake package ticked all the boxes but it offered very little visually over the standard TTG.

    Raptor is the opposite, looks fantastic over the standard product but its under powered and under braked..

    If Raptors RRP is greater than 10k over the Wildtrak than Ford are kidding themselves.
    2017.5 FORD MONDEO TITANIUM DIESEL
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  9. #17
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dash gt View Post
    You make sense on the F6X comment, but I think the biggest problem with that product was it looked too similar to the standard Territory Turbo. There was not enough differentiation to justify the price hike. The performance / brake package ticked all the boxes but it offered very little visually over the standard TTG.

    Raptor is the opposite, looks fantastic over the standard product but its under powered and under braked..

    If Raptors RRP is greater than 10k over the Wildtrak than Ford are kidding themselves.
    F6X was 5 years ahead of its time, and over priced.

    I think given our relationship with Ford Performance in a few years time we will look back at FPV, the products it produced, and mavel in absolute amazement at what we had....

    And subsequently lost....
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  11. #18
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    It is somewhat ironic that the hsv Colorado gets decent Ap racing brakes, and the raptor doesn't seem to have a premium brake set up.
    It will be interesting to see what one fares better in the market place. Iirc the hsv rrp is around 65-70k? So potentially there won't be a huge price difference.

    With the engine choice, I just can't justify in my head having the ford performance branded offering as seemingly well set up as the raptor is but potentially being one of the slowest double cabs on the market...
    There's been a lot talk about how the ten speed should make the most of the 2.0s power but won't doesn't seem to be mentioned a lot is the weight.
    I reckon this thing is gonna be a porker. All those chassis mods, big shocks and springs, big wheels and tyres it all adds up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

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  13. #19
    Aussie Fords FTe217's Avatar
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    It doesn't matter my pref how this should have could have I reckon being the size of this market today it will do well.
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  14. #20
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTe217 View Post
    It doesn't matter my pref how this should have could have I reckon being the size of this market today it will do well.
    I agree. We are not the target. Whether we should be is a continuing argument. The Raptor looks great both externally and internally. 95% of the chat online are from people that would not fork out the money for one even if Ford changed the motor. It will do well and I wish Ford the best of luck. They are having a go.
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