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Thread: Erebus to Boycott TTV6 for 2019.

  1. #1
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Erebus to Boycott TTV6 for 2019.

    https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/03/15...ommodore-2019/

    And another:

    Erebus Motorsport intends to stick with V8 power plants in its ZB Commodores instead of switching to the twin-turbo V6 engine next season.

    Supercars is set to usher in a new era in 2019 with the introduction of alternative power units, courtesy of Holden’s V6 twin-turbo engine, which has been developed in accordance with Gen2 regulations by Triple Eight and General Motors.

    The 3.6 litre unit is a version of the motor used in the Cadillac ATS GT3 racer and is due to be available to Holden Supercars teams on a lease basis from Triple Eight.

    It had been originally slated to make its debut this year to coincide with the debut of the ZB Commodore, before a decision to homologate the car initially with the current V8 engine.

    Development of the engine, alongside the ZB aero package, has taken place throughout last season with a series of wildcard runs planned this year, including the Bathurst 1000, before a full 2019 roll out.

    So far its only public appearance arrived at last October’s Supercheap Auto Bathurst 1000 when a Triple Eight Holden Sandman Supercar ran demonstration laps.

    While the engine is yet to make its competitive Supercar debut, Erebus has already indicated its wish to continue using the current five litre V8 powered ZB Commodore package.

    The squad will however make its final call on the matter by May.

    “This is just our view. It (the V6 twin-tubro) doesn’t relate to anything in what we are doing,” team manager Barry Ryan told Speedcafe.com.

    “We race V8s and Betty (Klimenko, team owner) will say the same thing and I think she is more against it (the V6 twin-turbo) than anyone.

    “Until it is a business decision and we have no choice, they (Supercars) homologated a ZB with a V8 and there should be no reason for that to change.”

    As reported in December last year, Supercars were yet to determine if the homologation of a V6 twin turbo ZB Commodore would supersede the homologation of a V8 ZB Commodore.

    However, the category has since told Speedcafe.com that teams are expected to be permitted to run either a V6 twin-turbo or V8 powered ZB Commodore next year if both homologations continue to exist.

    “The ZB Commodore is currently homologated to run a V8 power plant,” read a statement from Supercars.

    “The model then remains eligible with a V8 power plant in perpetuity. For example, the (Mercedes) E63 and the (Volvo) S60 are still eligible models under the rules.

    “A ZB Commodore with a V6 engine would; need to be homologated and once homologated would also become an eligible model; along with the ZB using a V8 power plant.

    “Under the rules teams are permitted to run any engine configuration as long as they are an eligible model.”

    Meanwhile, Holden sees the introduction of the V6 twin-turbo as key part of its Supercars program designed to fall into line with the ZB Commodore road car, which will be sold with a normally aspirated V6 engine.

    Last week, the manufacturer gave its strongest indication yet that it would remain involved in Supercars beyond its current factory agreement with Triple Eight, which expires at the end of 2019.
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    I sense a war looming between Holden/Roland and the other ZB teams....

    Also judging by their comments:

    We race V8s and Betty (Klimenko, team owner) will say the same thing and I think she is more against it (the V6 twin-turbo) than anyone.

    “Until it is a business decision and we have no choice, they (Supercars) homologated a ZB with a V8 and there should be no reason for that to change.”
    Like Walkinshaw and Boost mobile they see a marking down side to switching too.
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    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
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    And it begins. People are realising what the fans want. We do not have the numbers to take the risk. Be interesting to see what Andretti does. Would be a perfect time to investigate Camaro and keeping V8. Would leave Roland with a huge bill and no customers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perko View Post
    And it begins. People are realising what the fans want. We do not have the numbers to take the risk. Be interesting to see what Andretti does. Would be a perfect time to investigate Camaro and keeping V8. Would leave Roland with a huge bill and no customers.
    Yes.

    Holden are rightly trying to align their racing efforts with the road car for image and marketing purposes, ideally i think they wanted ZB to start the season with the TTV6, but its development is running well behind.

    They have an image issue with the ZB already, its failing to attract customers. (Probably no surprise to any of us).

    But at some point, regardless of what direction you want or have to take as a business you have to listen to your customers....

    They will only be led by the nose for so long, sooner or later they'll walk away if their needs are not met.
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    Someone has mentioned RBR are saying the Aero Homologation of the TTV6 ZB might not happen before Bathurst...

    Surely that excludes it from wildcard entry.
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    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    I don’t see how it matters a great deal.

    It’s not a Holden
    It’s not a chev.
    It’s not RWD
    It’s not go a V8 option.

    If the Holden running teams aren’t on the same page, it’s just a further decline in where the sport sits.

    This is what you get when you pull sponsorship as a car company. You lose control of what goes on out there.

    If T8 gain a competitive advantage from the V6, watch how little Erebus cares about what fans want.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    I don’t see how it matters a great deal.

    It’s not a Holden
    It’s not a chev.
    It’s not RWD
    It’s not go a V8 option.

    If the Holden running teams aren’t on the same page, it’s just a further decline in where the sport sits.

    This is what you get when you pull sponsorship as a car company. You lose control of what goes on out there.

    If T8 gain a competitive advantage from the V6, watch how little Erebus cares about what fans want.
    Holden have tried to have their cake and eat it too using Roland as the gate keeper of the IP.

    Effectively by allowing Roland to control the IP, Bodykit and TTV6 Engine supply they've tried to retain control over all the Holden teams but only sponsor 1.

    Its backfiring though.
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  12. #8
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
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    Totally agree Norm. This is why Nascar is still popular. They understand what the fans want and they deliver it. The shells have changed but the motors are what the fans want. SC's cannot afford to have the engine arguments that have plagued F1 over the years. The base is not there and they will vote with their feet. The stories that are now coming out are just the start of a bigger picture that SC's will struggle with and have not thought through properly. What do you do when local products are not on the track in a form that fans can relate to? Ford camps will not rush to a new car without factory support, Holden have a car that will be powered by a motor that is not supported, Nissan will pull the pin, and fans not sure what the future brings. Problem is that they have had years to plan, now they have only months to backpedal and find a solution.
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  13. #9
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
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    It's all good fun. May the Holden teams go to war with each other and use up all their energy there.

    There is also a little matter of cost in changing over to the V6TT. What do reckon that will cost per team? Each team would need 6 engines, 24 Turbos, tuning, new small parts in the form of wiring, sensors, piping, inter-coolers, brackets, shielding, then new weight balance to sort. It goes on and on. If they got out of it for $1m per team I'd be surprised.
    The problem with society today, is that nobody drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.

  14. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    It's all good fun. May the Holden teams go to war with each other and use up all their energy there.

    There is also a little matter of cost in changing over to the V6TT. What do reckon that will cost per team? Each team would need 6 engines, 24 Turbos, tuning, new small parts in the form of wiring, sensors, piping, inter-coolers, brackets, shielding, then new weight balance to sort. It goes on and on. If they got out of it for $1m per team I'd be surprised.
    There's no chance in hell the change to TTV6 won't cost a small fortune, incremental to the existing engine operational costs.

    All for absolutely zero gain in any way, in fact not allowed to provide any gain under parity obligations, other than to give Holden a more aligned marketing program.

    Without Holden having to shell out a single cent to the other teams its effectively controlling.
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