Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34

Thread: When sh1t gets real

  1. #1
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,540

    When sh1t gets real

    Another Tickford Racing implosion at the weekend and yet another Ford on Ford contact.

    Chaz on Russell (monster) car and Alex and Moffat where Alex went straight on at the chase.

    Both incidents were penalties. Supercars are guilty of screwing Scott at Newcastle last year and this is their way of pay back.

    It’s the only thing that makes sense.


    So we like to see drivers being real, having emotion, yeah no from me.

    Instantly people were sympathetic to Cam and his rage. 2 times at Bathurst he said and that is the problem. Would anyone like me to bring up Cams inter team contact and what he has said? Or how about the reaction by Chaz after being turned by Cam in NZ.


    While we are keeping score that is, in the spirit that is.....

    It’s like people like seeing the drama of a team in trouble played out publically where as over at DJR their drivers are either smart enough or schooled enough to shut up.

    Why is it a team manager says no comment?

    Let’s rewind to where Chaz was heard say, “we can’t even do the simple stuff”

    Chaz having a go at the team. The team don’t respond.

    Did Chaz’s engineer get in the radio and say, “tell me again about the simple stuff”


    This is a team sport. I don’t care about ratings and what people think. I will take robots over misguided belief that this is entertainment and real.

    This is a place of work. Would you like the media confronting you as you leave being told so and so said this about you?

    Never ever reveal that stuff to a third party without first talking directly to the person involved.

    I am in the middle of a start up venture. We are going to make plush keyboards and cameras so as the warriors out there can grab a hold and find a voice in real life. They will be light weight and “scrunchable” for portability sake.

    These millennials we hear so much about who rush to a keyboard to invade someone’s personal space because they grab hold of a 5 second sound bite and grow a set while a screen separates them from reality.

    Is it the cost of fame? No, hell fucking no.

    If you won’t say it to someone’s face, do not say it at all.

    Tickford have brought this to their door. It’s clear they have a don’t handle policy. I can appreciate that but not when the ramifications are as is.


    When drivers do what happened on the weekend, they disrespect the team. You don’t do that. There is no excuse to do that. On top of everything else going on, time spent dealing with this stuff is time spent distracted.

    Chaz is driving like Giz last year right now and everyone else is feeling like they need to defend themselves from a driving perspective.

    Richie is revealing himself to be of shit character, which I believe is performance driven comments by media and fans.

    “We expected so much better from Richie in his rookie year”

    That will take its toll eventually.

    If I am chazs engineer I would be speaking with cams engineer and setting up the pass. The respective engineers relay that to the drivers. It’s not hard.

    If in the event of an incident between the team, that same engineer gets on the radio and says, you say no comment. That is our team policy.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to HSE2 For This Useful Post:

    4Vman (10th October 2018),Elks (15th October 2018),Perko (12th October 2018),WASP (10th October 2018)

  3. #2
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    20,404
    Spot on Ian.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  4. #3
    Senior Member andrewforbes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    916
    I guess I agree to a certain extent.
    Problem being is commentators scan team radio for any chatter. N whatever they pick up can be fodder for the media n warriors.
    Yes they could of done the pass better.
    Argument can be made the door was open enough n then suddenly closed.
    Should Chaz had stuck his nose there maybe not. But then if u r a racing driver n u see an opportunity u should take it. Chaz was faster n Russell was holding him up. Whos at fault? I think both played a part in the eventual outcome. If rolls were reversed I think the attempted pass still would of happened. To me the door was well opened. Still Chaz made contact n that should of been a penalty. Was it cause it was team on team incident so no penalty. Same happens in afl, you can take ya team mates head off n not give away a free. How many times do u see teammates spoil each other in afl yet no internal fighting or dislike between teammates.
    In saying all that, the amount of shit on social media thrown at cam was wrong.
    The engineers need to get the head out of there arse, the team comes first n not the individual. I lay blame squarely at engineers for not organizing it better. It is better to have more of your cars fighting for victory then less. No one should ever pay attention to 3rd party lip service, if u didn't hear it first hand or have it said to your face it's not worth aggravation worrying about it. just concentrate on being the best driver u can. What's in the past can't be changed n seeking revenge is a waste of time. Incidents happen that's racing

  5. #4
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    20,404
    The main point id make is you don't need to take any risks to pass a team mate, in reality that early in the race you're not even "racing" them..

    Even the phrase "i thought there was a gap there" says "there's a high element of risk associated with this".

    2 engineers consult, negotiate the pass, job done.

    Or simply wait for the straight that was 30m further ahead.

    Either they have a process for doing this internally (and it wasn't followed) or they don't and need one.

    The aftermath of blame and angst says to me they're not on the same page, and don't have media protocols.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  6. #5
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    3,540
    Quote Originally Posted by andrewforbes View Post
    I guess I agree to a certain extent.
    Problem being is commentators scan team radio for any chatter. N whatever they pick up can be fodder for the media n warriors.
    Yes they could of done the pass better.
    Argument can be made the door was open enough n then suddenly closed.
    Should Chaz had stuck his nose there maybe not. But then if u r a racing driver n u see an opportunity u should take it. Chaz was faster n Russell was holding him up. Whos at fault? I think both played a part in the eventual outcome. If rolls were reversed I think the attempted pass still would of happened. To me the door was well opened. Still Chaz made contact n that should of been a penalty. Was it cause it was team on team incident so no penalty. Same happens in afl, you can take ya team mates head off n not give away a free. How many times do u see teammates spoil each other in afl yet no internal fighting or dislike between teammates.
    In saying all that, the amount of shit on social media thrown at cam was wrong.
    The engineers need to get the head out of there arse, the team comes first n not the individual. I lay blame squarely at engineers for not organizing it better. It is better to have more of your cars fighting for victory then less. No one should ever pay attention to 3rd party lip service, if u didn't hear it first hand or have it said to your face it's not worth aggravation worrying about it. just concentrate on being the best driver u can. What's in the past can't be changed n seeking revenge is a waste of time. Incidents happen that's racing
    This is a good point and one i have raised with Tickford Racing.

    It’s not so much the commentators scanning but Supercars themselves. The teams are not allowed to hide the inter team dialogue but it appears to me that the decision on what to make public post race is dependant on who is involved.

    If you take Richie doing a drift on track, clearly getting attention. He brought that on himself and the team, which then made it public interest so Supercars promoted that conversation knowing it already was going to get clicks.

    Is that in the best interests of the sport and sponsors? No but Richie should have thought about that before acting like a child.

    It’s not the third party lip service when the rights broadcaster sticks a microphone in your face often seconds after the incident or when a driver gets out if the car and hasn’t even seen the footage.

    Here is the standard that’s at play.

    Often the stewards or standards observer can’t make a call live.

    If you get out of a car that’s involved in controversy and you are asked for your opinion or side, unless you categorically know you stuffed up, the response should be, guys I just got out of the car, let me see the footage first.

    Some drivers just walk off. Some are let go others are chased out the back of the pits.

    If the driver is heading for the trailer that’s a clear sign he or she doesn’t want to speak to you.

    Let me ask you this.

    Why didn’t the commentary team instruct Murphy to head up to race control and interview Baird on why that wasn’t a penalty. Cam has exploded but race control has decided no breach. In order to determine that car 6 has been partially to blame. When talking to Craig how about we see footage of Frosty turning David, Chaz turning Cam, Cam turning Chaz where all three were penalised. Why isn’t the coverage focused on the piss poor decisions.

    Or

    How about while your up there explain why Scott got a dangerous re entry and Alex didn’t in effectively the same spot.

    Let’s see the two incidents side by side so we can learn how this all works.

    Is it right for the sport to throw these guys under a bus as they do, straight after an incident, when emotions are high, when they insulate themselves from far worse infractions and inconsistency.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  7. #6
    Senior Member andrewforbes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    916
    Yeah, I agree.
    Super cars lacks the consistency in dealing with incidents that are n have been penalized in the past, both incidents regarding safe re entry should have been dealt with the same. It seems as though that's the issue super cars needs consistency in dealing with penalties. And chasing drivers isn't on, time should be given to allow driver to view n get team direction before making comments on air. It reaks of muck raking.
    It does seem as red bull get the rub of the green but this could just be team directive when incidents happen between teammates.
    I think the whole penalty situation needs an over haul. Sometimes penalty are very y harsh for minor altercations.
    Was bad sportsmanship flag right for Scotty/premer? I think it was.
    Should chaz have been dealt a drive thru, probably.
    in the past if u bump someone off u got drive thru, now bump someone off they review situation n sometimes issue no penalty or allow driver to re address it.
    Richie should of been dealt with like a child. Spank him n send him to the corner for a time out.

  8. #7
    Enjoying FOA's Final Masterpiece Perko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba
    Posts
    3,179
    As an outsider looking in we only see what the media let's us see. A version of the truth. How close that is I will never know. I do love my Fords and my Ford teams, especially Tickford and Shell. From the outside the two teams portray two completely different cultures. Money has nothing to due with culture. It is a standard that is set and everyone is then held accountable to own that standard and uphold it.

    DJRTP look drilled and corporate. The drivers are professional. Fabs could be going off about chassis and reasons why he can't replicate Scott's speed but he doesn't. He gets on with the job. Interviews are measured. Rojer and Ryan look in control and as such the team looks cohesive.

    Tickford to me look lost. Stanaway needs to be brought under control or given marching orders. He is a paid driver, act like one. I can only imagine the pressure that Tim is under. Chaz should be at the pointy end, no doubts. However, Ian you are 100% right it is a team sport. Chaz and the engineers need to work to sort this out. If they can't find the solutions keep it in house. The team has responsibilities to more than the fans, they have current and future sponsors to look at. Mustang is a huge potential for this team. Sponsors need to have the confidence that they are investing in a team that is cohesive and that can work through pressure situations. I don't see that at the moment. Drop Richie and go back to 2 cars. Focus on Chaz and Frosty. They will repay the team. However first, set a team culture and hold everyone accountable.
    Ford Heritage : KF Laser, XF Ute, XH Tradesman Ute, EL Futura, AU2 Ute, XD Ute, XH XR6 Ute, BA XR8 Ute, SX Territory, BF XR8 Sedan, EB2 S XR6, EB1 S XR8, WQ Fiesta, FGX XR8, PX2 Ranger

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Perko For This Useful Post:

    4Vman (12th October 2018),Randel (15th October 2018),WASP (12th October 2018)

  10. #8
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    20,404
    Quote Originally Posted by Perko View Post
    As an outsider looking in we only see what the media let's us see. A version of the truth. How close that is I will never know. I do love my Fords and my Ford teams, especially Tickford and Shell. From the outside the two teams portray two completely different cultures. Money has nothing to due with culture. It is a standard that is set and everyone is then held accountable to own that standard and uphold it.

    DJRTP look drilled and corporate. The drivers are professional. Fabs could be going off about chassis and reasons why he can't replicate Scott's speed but he doesn't. He gets on with the job. Interviews are measured. Rojer and Ryan look in control and as such the team looks cohesive.

    Tickford to me look lost. Stanaway needs to be brought under control or given marching orders. He is a paid driver, act like one. I can only imagine the pressure that Tim is under. Chaz should be at the pointy end, no doubts. However, Ian you are 100% right it is a team sport. Chaz and the engineers need to work to sort this out. If they can't find the solutions keep it in house. The team has responsibilities to more than the fans, they have current and future sponsors to look at. Mustang is a huge potential for this team. Sponsors need to have the confidence that they are investing in a team that is cohesive and that can work through pressure situations. I don't see that at the moment. Drop Richie and go back to 2 cars. Focus on Chaz and Frosty. They will repay the team. However first, set a team culture and hold everyone accountable.
    I can't like this post enough.

    Well said mate.

    Culture and presentation costs nothing but Leadership, effort, direction and discipline.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 4Vman For This Useful Post:

    Perko (14th October 2018),WASP (15th October 2018)

  12. #9
    Senior Member andrewforbes's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    916
    Yep
    But u know not all teams are as good as djr n 888. Erabus are there I reckon.
    But look at what the former Holden team/Mobil has become, I'm interested to see how walk n andretti plays out, I don't think things are really cohesive there, Ryan needed cash but I don't think he wanted andretti at the races, ryans body language is very closed off when andretti is near him. I just don't think the relationship will be good for the success of that team.

  13. #10
    Validated User
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia, Australia
    Posts
    2,548
    Dunno about Erebus "being there" at the moment?

    Betty "dumped " on David, for the Bathurst loss & Barry comes out with "Davey didn't cost us much at all"?
    This sort of stuff belongs behind closed doors, you win as a Team, you lose as a team.
    Driver health & safety is important, why Supercars never stepped in & demanded they get Davey out of that car, I will never know.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •