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Thread: Breaking GT500 news

  1. #191
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post

    Right at the top as an example would in fact be Mustang Motorsports. These guys are Shelby.

    If we have an agent of Shelby in this country and as I understand it the super snake is recognised as a genuine Shelby, you are getting into some thought provoking discussions to step away from that and effectively use Holden ties or at the very least associations.


    Partnering up with them for an official program would look very different to what’s going on now. For example, how do MMS get their cars?

    Are they going through dealers with full retail or mark ups? I think a lot could be done with genuine factory support. The real issue here is Ford Aust have stood to the side while various businesses convert their products to RHD.

    That’s not the way you do it. With out going into too much detail people need to think back to how cars are generally handed over for specialist treatments. There is a lot that’s already done and more that can be saved. You don’t actually have to manufacture a new interior for example like what Walkingshaw had to do.

    But before wasting time on this sort of direction you really need to understand who your customer is.

    How many people on this site would pay 170k for a GT500? Keep in mind the build number restrictions for the home market for each 500 and carbon option builds.
    As it stands customers purchase their own cars and deliver them to MMS for conversion.

    As i understand it MMS would need to buy cars off a dealer and import them, there is no back door relationship with Ford, and Shelby are an aftermarket entity in the space MMS play in.

    Have you seen MMS?



    Its about the size of Herrods. They have neither the space, setup or compliance to do tier 1 supplier work and volume.

    There's millions in ticking those boxes.

    Herrods would be in the same boat.

    Tickford probably better positioned, i'm not sure how much of the FPV assembly facility and equipment they have left.

    Don't get hung up too much on ties, Walkinshaw are just a contractor, Dodge use them, GM use them, other companies use them too.

    Their facility is state of the art, would probably have a similar foot print to the Ford Engine plant in Geelong.

    They could handle the volume in a timely professional manner.







    HSV is a completely different entity.

    Effectively that brand is in hibernation.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  3. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    Thought of another way of expressing this.

    When you buy a car like the GT500 what is it youíre buying? What understanding does one have about whatís of value?

    Is it because itís Ford? I would say not so much.
    Is it because itís a mustang? Slightly stronger but still no.
    A Shelby? Yes I think this is strong
    Ford Performance, yes but probably not as strong as Shelby at this stage of its brand life.
    GT500, probably the strongest aspect or at least on equal terms with Shelby.

    If through your journey to my door the chain of custody becomes diluted that these values are diminished, you will have a problem.

    We are talking about a bandaid. Treating the symptom rather than the cause. A simple question with an equally simple answer is required.

    With the next generation of the Shelbyís, will they be made available in RHD as an import to our shores?

    You get that answer then you gain an idea of what sort of program you need to run.

    Now keep in mind there are some rumours that persist especially in Victoria about Herrod expanding into new ventures that align closer with factory. So there again thatís another example. This time an agent of Ford performance as a potential suitor to such a program. He isnít currently set up but word is he is looking at it so he would be at disadvantage but in other ways an advantage.

    A link to Shelby on one hand, a link to Ford Performance on the other. And I guess in this example even a link to DJRTP by association. There is certainly more purity of brand with these two options which would play a part in a product from Ford Performance and associated with the Shelby brand. Continuities, they matter.

    The other thing that probably belongs here as well is this factory supercharger option package.

    I am on record as saying itís the wrong business case for Ford.

    With a forum like we have here, I think the concerns are genuine and real.

    Itís not the car we need and while we are lacking a genuine hero car, the solution is really about expanding products that you can genuinely leverage as Ford Performance. Thatís the brand Ford relaunched here 14 months ago.

    What exactly is being done with this?

    Not enough in my book.
    Totally agree.

    It wouldnt surprise me if Ford revisit their position on the Factory FP Mustangs at some point, currently the offering just isnt enough..
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  4. #193
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    As it stands customers purchase their own cars and deliver them to MMS for conversion.

    As i understand it MMS would need to buy cars off a dealer and import them, there is no back door relationship with Ford, and Shelby are an aftermarket entity in the space MMS play in.

    Have you seen MMS?



    Its about the size of Herrods. They have neither the space, setup or compliance to do tier 1 supplier work and volume.

    There's millions in ticking those boxes.

    Herrods would be in the same boat.

    Tickford probably better positioned, i'm not sure how much of the FPV assembly facility and equipment they have left.

    Don't get hung up too much on ties, Walkinshaw are just a contractor, Dodge use them, GM use them, other companies use them too.

    Their facility is state of the art, would probably have a similar foot print to the Ford Engine plant in Geelong.

    They could handle the volume in a timely professional manner.







    HSV is a completely different entity.

    Effectively that brand is in hibernation.
    Norm. I will say this slowly.

    You either value Ford Performance or you don’t. I seriously can’t believe you of all people can’t understand this.

    1) you have the wrong idea of what’s required if a manufacturer is involved. The cars aren’t shipped in the state they currently are for starters.

    2) as stated FP see their brand as AMG. Where in the world does amg allow m division to work on their cars or IP. Think about what your saying. This is a premium brand and you say don’t get hung up on associations. Fuck me. Do you work in branding or not.

    It doesn’t matter what Ryan can do if consumer don’t accept it.

    No Ford consumer worth their salt will back Walkingshaw. That’s just the way it is. If I wanted to do that I would buy the ZR1. I would own a W1.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  6. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    Norm. I will say this slowly.

    You either value Ford Performance or you don’t. I seriously can’t believe you of all people can’t understand this.

    1) you have the wrong idea of what’s required if a manufacturer is involved. The cars aren’t shipped in the state they currently are for starters.

    2) as stated FP see their brand as AMG. Where in the world does amg allow m division to work on their cars or IP. Think about what your saying. This is a premium brand and you say don’t get hung up on associations. Fuck me. Do you work in branding or not.

    It doesn’t matter what Ryan can do if consumer don’t accept it.

    No Ford consumer worth their salt will back Walkingshaw. That’s just the way it is. If I wanted to do that I would by the ZR1. I would own a W1.
    You and I have discussed this a lot.

    I agree on the sentiment but..

    Ford Performance confuse me as a brand.

    AMG in contrast, there's no confusion, they are very clear about Product, Brand and consumer Message.

    Hey I agree about doing things the right way.

    We shouldnt even be discussion conversions, they already make 99% of the parts needed to ship a RHD GT350/500 to AU, the issue is the product simply isnt coming here, and that's why people like MMS sieze opportunities and cash in on them.
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  7. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    LOL.


    Unfortunately he's the only one left in this country with the infrastructure capable of managing such a task.


    MM are cottage at best, they can't handle volume.

    The setup cost for someone to do this would be prohibitive on the numbers we'd consume.
    What about performax here in QLD? Or are they quite small in comparison?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  8. #196
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    You and I have discussed this a lot.

    I agree on the sentiment but..

    Ford Performance confuse me as a brand.

    AMG in contrast, there's no confusion, they are very clear about Product, Brand and consumer Message.

    Hey I agree about doing things the right way.

    We shouldnt even be discussion conversions, they already make 99% of the parts needed to ship a RHD GT350/500 to AU, the issue is the product simply isnt coming here, and that's why people like MMS sieze opportunities and cash in on them.
    So the new Herrod complex is part of a different venture. If it’s even the truth that is. Where he is is too small and requires separation from his aftermarket business. It has a new name to go with it.

    Let’s assume a few things.

    Ford Aust would have to get an assurance that RHD Shelby’s from factory are not on the horizon. Preferably at all and for ever.

    That’s a problem and it requires a solution.

    Who they decide to panther with needs to have brand synergies because you are using Ford Performance. You are leveraging Ford Performance in everything you do. You can’t shut off Aust content from the world. What happens here has implications around the globe. It’s the reverse of their reasoning in coming back into racing. You do that here it devalues the Ford Performance brand globally.

    Currently none of the brands handled by Walkingshaw have handling or conflicting issues.

    I can think of ways to mitigate those conflicts but it would require Ryan to make some serious concessions on his side that would allow facility use but even then it’s still not ideal for our brand.

    If what I have in mind is even possible you don’t really need that much space but not sure you can transport internationally cars in a state similar to what Ford used to do between factory and FPV.

    All the current models are using cars that arrived in a finished state. I wouldn’t do that. You can’t have customers supplying cars. All that stops. I think improvements can be made on what Walkingshaw are required to do cutting cost complexity and space required. My assumptions are based on what I am told Ford do at flatrock for our racing program.

    I am more interested in the quality of the conversions being carried out in Aust. Not juts MMS but the F truck structures on the east coast.

    I actually think Ford need to look at these first. Potentially targeting F150 Raptor but F truck in general. I would be looking in that direction first but I am more interested in what the customers sees and feels as opposed to the complex it’s in.

    I looked over a F150 at Adelaide and I have to say it looked pretty good to me. That’s converted by someone in Victoria.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  9. #197
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    Yes, F Truck gives them the ability to create infrastructure that has ongoing steady demand, the beneficiary of that would be having the setup to handle smaller run stuff like FP products.

    I have thought about shipping cars incomplete, it saves the cost of undoing work to re-do it.

    It also makes moving them difficult, it would probably be cheaper to just complete them to 90% AU spec and do the finishing touches here.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  11. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by defective View Post
    What about performax here in QLD? Or are they quite small in comparison?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is more in line with my thoughts. If you could bring together the Companies that currently convert Ford products you start to get a base from which a partnership might be possible.

    Back in 2001 Tickford won a contact to do RHD conversions. I didn’t know this but supposedly F truck was also a possibility.

    What we know today comes from an article where Ford responded to questions about conversions of Ford product. F truck was singled out saying it was a situation they were monitoring.

    Well monitor quicker because the number of rams on the road, even down here is ridiculous.
    Once you get a volume then you can look at piggy backing special builds but I would start with F truck first.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  12. #199
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    Surely the success of ram, and to a lesser extent Silverado has ford looking pretty closely.

    Top spec rangers and other dual cabs are not really a huge amount away from base level ram in pricing and that makes people cross shop.

    Thereís seems to be a genuine under current of discontent about pricing vs quality vs value with the Asian dual cabs, going by what I read on a few of the grey nomad/camping sites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  13. #200
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
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    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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