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Thread: Holy grail media reaction thread

  1. #101
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    I image shockworks are already selling brilliant suspension packages for XR8s and GTs. I guess what sets the HG package apart is the new trailing arm control blade and wheels. I would hope there is no crossover on that. Ie that stuff remains exclusive to the HG.

    Despite all that I really hope we see the Premcar SVT (or SVT) brand appear on more high quality “beyond OEM” products in the future.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie167 View Post
    I image shockworks are already selling brilliant suspension packages for XR8s and GTs. I guess what sets the HG package apart is the new trailing arm control blade and wheels. I would hope there is no crossover on that. Ie that stuff remains exclusive to the HG.

    Despite all that I really hope we see the Premcar SVT (or SVT) brand appear on more high quality “beyond OEM” products in the future.
    I think and I might be wrong here, obviously the hardware by shockworks is the same. The internals and valving will or could be different. I did speak to Brett and that’s the way it sounded in not so many words.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  5. #103
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    I'd be surprised the internals is different.
    Coilovers offer a much greater range of adjustability including ride height, spring pre-load, shock damping and rebound therefore use good quality internals compared to usual std twin tube shocks. Mono tube.
    The valving is the key at dedicated speeds and the lbs rate of the coils.
    The above is what Premcar would be nominating to Shock Works as their IP re HG.
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  6. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTe217 View Post
    I'd be surprised the internals is different.
    Coilovers offer a much greater range of adjustability including ride height, spring pre-load, shock damping and rebound therefore use good quality internals compared to usual std twin tube shocks. Mono tube.
    The valving is the key at dedicated speeds and the lbs rate of the coils.
    The above is what Premcar would be nominating to Shock Works as their IP re HG.
    It sounds like the valving is different, but as I said the hardware is the same. Actually the mounting might not be now I think about it. I think there is a modification of the mounting bracket.

    After talking to Brett myself, he admitted he didn’t think what they achieved was possible. I think it’s a slightly different philosophy to what shockworks have used
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  8. #105
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    OK the mounting bracket - wonder fronts or rears ? could be rear due to the revised lower control arm but who knows.
    The valving is key matched with the spring rates ofcourse.
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  9. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    It sounds like the valving is different, but as I said the hardware is the same. Actually the mounting might not be now I think about it. I think there is a modification of the mounting bracket.

    After talking to Brett myself, he admitted he didn’t think what they achieved was possible. I think it’s a slightly different philosophy to what shockworks have used
    While i accept they may have adopted a different philosophy for the HG specification, ultimately if that revised philosophy resulted in a better outcome it would be a long stretch to suggest that philosophy wouldnt be adopted by Shockworks moving forward for similar applications.....
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    While i accept they may have adopted a different philosophy for the HG specification, ultimately if that revised philosophy resulted in a better outcome it would be a long stretch to suggest that philosophy wouldnt be adopted by Shockworks moving forward for similar applications.....
    I was told there is a legal contract preventing shock works from using what was engineered by Premcar. It sounds like it’s got a lot of Andrews involvement who is an engineer for Premcar, which leaves shock works as basically the hardware supplier. Brett does customer dampers so has the ability to do what is required by the customer just in their case a contact will lock out shockworks for the duration of what was agreed to.

    Typically is in the range of a couple of years.

    Not saying that’s what has gone on here but that’s the way it was told to me.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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  14. #109
    Mr Aftermarket :) FTe217's Avatar
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    Correct Ian, I have been doing PB (private brand) business for a loonnng time.
    So re shock absorbers for x PB brand has nominated (more so R&D'd) their damping forces for each part number to application.
    I cannot use this same IP for any other development I go into or duplicate to current same application whilst my same Factory is producing these customers lines.
    If the relationship is terminated its open slather obviously depending on contract stipulations.
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  15. #110
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    So not a media reaction but the write up from a customer. I have permission to copy his post here for those not on FB

    Richard Ellis
    11 June at 13:48
    Premcar Holy Grail fuel use and ECU software.. initial observations.

    [Added link to exhaust note at bottom]

    Excuse the detail but this needs context and explaining! Its become a bit of an article more than a post. But the story needs telling.

    I've chunked it into sections.

    Background:

    Via a past job I used to salary package a new car every 2 years with endless fuel card, tyres, servicing etc, so since late 2002 when I got one of the very first XR6Ts, every 2 years I have been lucky enough to alternate between various SSs and XR6Ts as they each improved...Id grab whatever looked best on the fleet list at the time. My final car there was this xr8 which i bought out when I left. Thank bloody God. It appeared on the fleet list only once at the very time I needed to order my next car. I think they didn't realize how quick it was. it never reappeared on the fleet list.

    I think this is the best ECU tune, ever.

    Ever ever. Just don't argue!
    Its the best I've experienced in any car, of any brand. By a fair margin.

    Idle

    The idle on my car appears to be now painted on the tacho. I kid you not, aside from when it may cold start idle higher for a min, I have NEVER seen the tacho move at idle. As in I have several times been silly enough to watch that tacho needle closely from inches away and there is ZERO movement. Not even a tiny fraction of a mm.You can watch it as long as you like. Its not moving! As smooth as an idle gets. So smooth that it stood out and Im sad enough to then stare at it!

    Ecu programming and power delivery

    As I have said before, this car drives like it was carefully and cohesively engineeed not a simple ramp up in power..I have only properly used 1st, 2nd and 3rd fully (manual and with the 7000rpm redline, that now brings you to 200ish kmh), and it gets more full-on as you approach 200kmh. No let up. Zip. actually seems to get more fierce the faster you go...endless increase through to 7000rpm. 3rd seems to pull harder than 2nd which feels like it pulls harder than 1st. Fierce but perfectly delivered power.

    "Relentlessly building power" is the best description.

    That makes for quite an amazing driving experience. People dont believe it until they experience it. Gear independent tuning appears to be executed with absolute perfection. Balancing all that power and torque with all that grip and different gearing and just working in harmony, for every gear. It's intimidatingly not intimidating!

    Engine, car, driveline protections

    All the ecu protections like ABS, driveline protection, Stability Control, Stupidity Control, Really Really Stupid Driver Control, and more, work beautifully and it takes effort to get them to kick in. Not only are they all there but the grip levels they are matched to (with the handling option) are so high, by the time they do what they need to do, you are probably at Max Q and about to leave earth's orbit. An HG may well be the second car into orbit after that Tesla they launched.

    Efficiency, emissions and fuel consumption

    Premcar did some FB posts on the results of their emissions testing which were crazy good. Better than crazy good. So good they didn't believe it and ran the tests again at the official NSW testing facility. But the results were correct. Really impressive stuff.

    I await my first eco-emmissions-concerned-stranger discussion with glee.

    A couple of the things I do is keep an eye on average speed and average fuel consumption as they tell a story.

    Both take a little time to change, so represent a good rolling average of what's going on..

    In 3 weeks my average speed last I checked went up 6 kmh - that's actually a hell of a lot!
    It also makes perfect sense given the car has 40% more power and 30% more torque (if I got that the right way round).

    You can imagine taking people for drives etc what that 3 weeks has been like fuel wise.

    Here are some hard stats:

    Im pretty good at fuel. My first 2002 XR6T I used to score 24.5L/100km on 98 octane, best score in a fleet of ~400 and all had fuel cards! 90% hard city driving. Traffic. Little bits of freeway. Muchos acceleratos. The fleet average was 13.96 - impressive given I think the official consumption figure was 14 L/100km...spot on!

    In later releases, then in the 270kw variant my petrol use slowly dropped with each car, I'm guessing with new improved tunes as time passed. God knows my driving didnt get better.

    I think I levelled off at a pleasant 20.5 on the last 270 kw 6T variants. It was pretty steady. I always get the fuel warning indicator at exactly or 1mm over 1/4 tank left, saying 80km warning..fill up. Thats been the same for ages.

    So cue the FGX XR8 arriving ..335/375kw, same driving style (just oodles more power used) and i got a similar 20.5L/100km. Fuel warning on the same 1/4 tank indicator.

    Very impressive as the power unit very much stood out from the xr6ts and SSs. It felt in a different league.

    This revised software is so good, with 483kw/753Nm and endless test drives, I am using LESS fuel than any of the 7 or so XR6Ts, SSs, and my stock fgx XR8 since 2002.

    Yes, less.

    Thats means my HG currently has..and these are accurate, fact based numbers for the same driver and across 7 similar cars and 14 years always with 98 octane:

    - 28% lower fuel consumption than the two 240kw XR6Ts ive had
    - Approx 5% less fuel use than 270kw XR6T or 6 litre 270kw SS
    - 1 L/100km less fuel consumption than my stock 335/375kw xr8.

    BUT!! my HGs average fuel figure is still dropping each week and hasnt bottomed out yet!

    I have seen, with utter amazement, the average fuel figure on the grey Premcar test mule.. the one in all the videos, and if mine ends up even close to that, the guys at Premcar are getting a slab! That car is driven HARD! I'll stay quiet on the figure for now and see what I get down to and report back.

    For the first time in 8 years no fuel warning until less than 1/4 tank left.

    So we have 30-40% more power and torque, using less fuel.

    We have 28% LOWER fuel consumption than original XR6Ts with MORE than TWICE the power being made....483 vs 240 kw

    I think that is a pretty good factual indicator that the tune and engine are both massively efficient and brilliantly done. Well beyond OEM Engineering.

    Which matches perfectly with the incredible official emissions tests....fuel isn't being wasted.

    That's all amazing in my book!

    And you know what? Every detail of every aspect of the changes made for the HG are just as impressive if you focus on them. Sound, handling, performance...harmoniously executed.

    It has to be driven to be believed.

    Edit: I have tried to record what the engine note is like, using a half decent mic not a phone. Here is a link - I dont know if the quality has been reduced when I uploaded it (which will chop out deepest notes), but if you play this on a stereo/home theatre that can produce decent bass, you will get a better idea of the sound than on a phone or similar low quality sound device.

    https://soundcloud.com/user-72800137...and-a-few-revs
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

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