Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 32

Thread: Labor would like to make cars again!

  1. #21
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    21,381
    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    I want to add a further question.

    There is so much talk about EV cars.

    You all know I come from a trade background. Building was one of the first industries to go battery with hand tools.

    We all said it won't work or last. Then we said, a drill is ok but gridner or cutting no way.

    The biggest issue I have today is I can afford to throw away a phone or my battery drill and get a replacement with out trade.

    Politics is making a big song about the cost to buy and run. What about the resale on cycle deprived batteries.


    It's the equivalent of needed to do major work on your engine.

    You can trade your combustion engine car and it still be worth something. Not sure I have the same confidence with EV cars with the current battery tech.

    Thoughts?
    There's so much that isn't being spoken about with EV's and HV's.

    As you say, redundancy, longevity and resale are just the tip.

    What about disposal of the used battery???
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  2. #22
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,180
    Quote Originally Posted by 4Vman View Post
    Yes, i saw that.

    Massive red flag.
    Labor will put me out of work and will not save the plant.

    You need to understand how carbon trading works to see the con that's going on.

    I am a polluter of the environment. The entire industry that supplies cement around the globe is.

    Hurting our country doesn't fix the world unless you consume less concrete.

    Taxing us doesn't fix one thing. It shifts the problem but creates other industries that make a profit.

    Climate change isn't a con.

    The method to address it that's popular is.

    It's a political agenda to get into office by making people feel good. Oh I am doing something. But your not.


    You have to change.

    Becoming vegans is an example of change.

    Consuming less or reducing the worlds population is change.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HSE2 For This Useful Post:

    FTe217 (15th May 2019),WASP (14th May 2019)

  4. #23
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,129
    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    Politics is making a big song about the cost to buy and run. What about the resale on cycle deprived batteries.
    Yes they are and I am not sure why. They have little or no influence on this or it's outcomes. Car may go EV or the may go Hydrogen. Shell oil is investing heavily in Battery tech, so I think that's a big tell.


    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    It's the equivalent of needed to do major work on your engine.

    You can trade your combustion engine car and it still be worth something. Not sure I have the same confidence with EV cars with the current battery tech.

    Thoughts?

    As you know I do a bit of work with guys in the Taxi / Ride share business.

    They have been the early adopters of the hybrid vehicles, with Camry Hybrid being the weapon of choice, since the demise of the Falcon. I there work they get about 800,000 km out of a car, and usually the batteries last that time. Early cars 2010-2013 needed a vent to the boot to stop batteries overheating, 14+ it's no issues. Vent is ex factory. If they Batteries fail its about $3000 for a set, and they can be had cheaper through the wrecker. This was as much as $8k but as the car s have become plentiful the prices have fallen. The cabbies CGAF about carbon emissions, it's all about $$$ to them. Most Camry Hybrids are converted to LPG and run as LPG?Hybrid EV. $5 in fuel per shift, down from $40 in pure LPG. Each shift is 250km of metro stoop start work. LPG is a little cleaner than petrol but as I said that not their motivation.

    The big thing that is being missed is the opportunity to save money of running cost. The Tesla's as good as they are almost a hindrance to the EV industry as the are SO expensive, that unless you're hard core enviro or doing lots of KM it doesn't make sense.

    As Toyota expand their range to Hybrid everything Rav4 launches this month, (HiAce and HiLux are coming.)

    Future advances will come from extending range and changes to the charging network. Apparently there is lots of issues setting up superchargers. From the quality of the power grid in the district, to council requirements to amenities such as food & toilets. Lets face it if you're going to stop for 20 mins to top up charge, you may as well do it properly. So that is going to limit the uptake in regional areas until it's solved.

    The other major area of work is Sodium (salt) batteries replacing lithium. Sodium 2nd most plentiful element on earth. They are cheaper to build, easy to recycle, but as yet the performance isn't there.
    The problem with society today, is that nobody drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Elks For This Useful Post:

    Burnout (15th May 2019),Randel (15th May 2019)

  6. #24
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,129
    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post

    I am a polluter of the environment. The entire industry that supplies cement around the globe is.
    Cement production is 5% of Oz emissions. About the same as cars.

    The ALP is so in bed with / controlled by the CFMEU, that anything that hurts the construction industry will either be exempt, subsidised or just excepted as being the 50% of emissions that we don't reduce. It is too ubiquitous a product to be just let fold. I accept your premise that they can just import the stuff, from a place that is producing it more cheaply without an emissions trading scheme or whatever, but then it need to be having tariffs added or it makes a mockery of what they are doing. But then again planning around a Govco acting sensibly is fraught with danger.
    The problem with society today, is that nobody drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.

  7. #25
    Validated User WASP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    3,875
    Quote Originally Posted by HSE2 View Post
    I want to add a further question.

    There is so much talk about EV cars.

    You all know I come from a trade background. Building was one of the first industries to go battery with hand tools.

    We all said it won't work or last. Then we said, a drill is ok but gridner or cutting no way.

    The biggest issue I have today is I can afford to throw away a phone or my battery drill and get a replacement with out trade.

    Politics is making a big song about the cost to buy and run. What about the resale on cycle deprived batteries.


    It's the equivalent of needed to do major work on your engine.

    You can trade your combustion engine car and it still be worth something. Not sure I have the same confidence with EV cars with the current battery tech.

    Thoughts?
    I suspect the offset will come in the form maintenance requirements on your EV (compared to combustion powered vehicles), or lack thereof. For example, Tesla claim they use electric motors that have two moving parts, and single-speed “transmissions” that have no gears. The company says its drivetrain has about 17 moving parts compared with about 200 in a conventional internal combustion drivetrain. The Tesla system is virtually maintenance-free. A Tesla Model S has fewer than 150 moving parts in total, including the drive train, windows, controls, suspension and doors. A typical internal combustion engine car has about 10,000.

    Point being, the cars will last longer and require less maintenance to keep. They may even be recyclable but when they are dead I would say they will be dead and worthless (a bit like old smartphone or Apple computer ). As buyers and as part of supporting environmentally sustainable practices and industries, we'll need to weigh up the dispose-ability equation. What is better i.e.

    a car that costs less to buy and has stronger resale, but costs more to run/maintain and keep on the road for longer, or;
    a car that cost more to buy, is almost worthless when well used (apart from being recyclable) but lasts longer with virtually no maintenance other than software upgrades

    For many, the tipping point is the durability and reusability (recyclable aspect). Show that the cars of the future can be converted into new cars or re-used almost entirely for other products with the minimization of plastics. Show that this process can be carried out in a manner that is sustainable and not harmful to the environment. Show that giving up your vehicle for re-purposing is not only good for the planet you get paid to do it or it is incentivized by the opportunity to upgrade to newer models/plans.

    If I said to you, here buy this $60k EV + Power plan of $10k. It will cost almost nothing to run and maintain and last 10 yrs ($7k per year or $583 per month). At that point, you can 100% recycle it and get a new 'car plan'), how would that sound to you compared to what we have now?
    Lifetime Ford Falcon enthusiast and previous owner of the following models XR, XY, XB, XC, XD, EB, AU, BA and FG.
    Current owner of a BA Mk2 FPV GT and a FG XR6 Turbo

    Mustang enthusiast and current owner of a 1969 Mach 1 351 4V 4-barrel M-Code + 2018 Mustang GT 10 speed

  8. #26
    James. defective's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    brisbane
    Posts
    3,708
    I think the bigger issue with the shift to ev’s is how will the govt recoup it’s lost income from fuel excise taxes?
    Will it be like lpg where they gradually hike the price so for many it’s either the same old running cost as petrol or only slightly cheaper?

    No politician standing has clear policies on how to handle the changes coming over the next 7-12 years.
    Because they’re only interested in the next 3.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by Falc'man View Post
    In the words of a wise man: if you don't read the papers you're uninformed, if you do read the papers you're misinformed.

  9. #27
    Miami Sprint. 4Vman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    21,381
    Quote Originally Posted by defective View Post
    I think the bigger issue with the shift to ev’s is how will the govt recoup it’s lost income from fuel excise taxes?
    Will it be like lpg where they gradually hike the price so for many it’s either the same old running cost as petrol or only slightly cheaper?

    No politician standing has clear policies on how to handle the changes coming over the next 7-12 years.
    Because they’re only interested in the next 3.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Nobody is addressing this yet.

    It will come in 3 ways: pay per k in your vehicle, GST to double, Levy on home charging with permits per charge point.

    If the ALP get in it will become their issue to address as EV's and HV's become more common.
    My Falcon family heritage: XY V8 Falcon 500, XYGT, XBGT, XC 351 GS, XD 4.1 Spack, EF wagon, AU Wagon, AU2 Wagon, AU2 XR8, BA XR8, BF XR8, FG XR6, Lucky last: Sprint 8. Oh wait, AU3 XLS Marlin Ute!

  10. #28
    I Bleed Blue Elks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,129
    Quote Originally Posted by defective View Post
    I think the bigger issue with the shift to ev’s is how will the govt recoup it’s lost income from fuel excise taxes?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    This is a real issue. But it's the 1st time I've heard people be concerned about paying less tax.
    The problem with society today, is that nobody drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.

  11. #29
    Validated User WASP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    3,875
    https://www.afr.com/news/politics/na...0190401-p519nn

    Electric cars drive 'urgent' need to reform road tax

    Australia needs to get cracking on charging electric car drivers to use roads or risk losing $17 billion a year in fuel excise if Labor’s new national electric vehicles policy gains traction, infrastructure bodies have warned.

    “Electrification is an enormous opportunity to rethink the way we deliver roads for a better outcome for users and taxpayers,” said Infrastructure Partnerships Australia's chief executive Adrian Dwyer.

    Mr Dwyer, who represents private companies as well as government agencies, said it was “relatively urgent” for the Commonwealth to act.
    Lifetime Ford Falcon enthusiast and previous owner of the following models XR, XY, XB, XC, XD, EB, AU, BA and FG.
    Current owner of a BA Mk2 FPV GT and a FG XR6 Turbo

    Mustang enthusiast and current owner of a 1969 Mach 1 351 4V 4-barrel M-Code + 2018 Mustang GT 10 speed

  12. #30
    7753 - 5030 HSE2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    4,180
    Quote Originally Posted by Elks View Post
    Cement production is 5% of Oz emissions. About the same as cars.

    The ALP is so in bed with / controlled by the CFMEU, that anything that hurts the construction industry will either be exempt, subsidised or just excepted as being the 50% of emissions that we don't reduce. It is too ubiquitous a product to be just let fold. I accept your premise that they can just import the stuff, from a place that is producing it more cheaply without an emissions trading scheme or whatever, but then it need to be having tariffs added or it makes a mockery of what they are doing. But then again planning around a Govco acting sensibly is fraught with danger.
    I will say this slowly.

    This isn't about Aust and no where ever you get your data from throw it away.

    Emissions are so much more than carbon. Trust me when I say cement is the biggest of its type in the world.

    You can't burn carbon and it not be.

    That part you have right is this country plans to fix the world by acting on a portion that's insignificant.

    Aust cement requirements will be shipped in and the net impact on the environment has the potential to be negative.

    How do you add tariffs to a sector that by nature defines the economy. Slow building down. Make it more expensive and what happens?

    This isn't about cheaper. This is saving the world and the problem starts in universitys around the country.

    Absolute dumbies who wouldn't even know how a carbon tax actually works to reduce the impact on the environment.

    If labor impose a carbon tax on the cement industry, the steel industry any industry that produces environmental harm how do is it work to lower the impact.

    People are so stupid it not funny.
    History is a statement, the future is a question.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to HSE2 For This Useful Post:

    Elks (16th May 2019)

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •