2016 Ford Falcon FGX XR Sprint Launch, Part 3): Performance testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2242100

Regarding your point about a 4.5 sec 0-100 time in the Sprint leading to a 12.8 ish 400 metre time, I'm thinking that might be a bit pessimistic.
Given the Sprint's apparent mid 180's 400 metre end speed potential, I'd expect a 12.50 to 12.60 second 400 metre time to come from a 4.50 second 0-100 km/h time.
For example a GTF Auto (which should have a similar performance profile) was tested in the July 2014 issue of Wheels, and under good 17 degree conditions it achieved an apparently fuss free 4.68 time to 100 km/h, and the 400 metre time was exactly 8 seconds more at 12.68 seconds (with a speed of 186.7 km/h).

Welcome aboard and thankyou for your thoughts.

In regards to the auto GT-F run of 0-100 4.68 sec to 100kph and 12.68 400m if there was wheelspin in that 4.68 0-100 and it recovers well the "8 second" might apply. Otherwise i'm more leaning towards 8.2 as well.

The biggest issue as i know you've encountered when comparing 400m times is the impact of rollout and timing methods.

People are still struggling to compare apples V apples with 400m times and as you know there can be a 3 tenths difference for identical runs depending on timing method.

So for example because the Strip doesnt give you 0-100 times if you mix a VBox timed 0-100 with strip timed 400m for the same run there's every chance you'll get say a 4.5 sec 0-100 and 12.5 second 400m i.e 8 seconds.

The reality is though the 400m time on a VBox is 12.8, so that gives you 8.3 seconds spread.

The other question id like to pose to you is what impact do you think the 30 extra TOB KW that a Sprint 8 has over a Sprint 6 has would impact 1) That 8 second theory and 2) terminal speeds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Welcome aboard and thankyou for your thoughts.

In regards to the auto GT-F run of 0-100 4.68 sec to 100kph and 12.68 400m if there was wheelspin in that 4.68 0-100 and it recovers well the "8 second" might apply. Otherwise i'm more leaning towards 8.2 as well.

The biggest issue as i know you've encountered when comparing 400m times is the impact of rollout and timing methods.

People are still struggling to compare apples V apples with 400m times and as you know there can be a 3 tenths difference for identical runs depending on timing method.

So for example because the Strip doesnt give you 0-100 times if you mix a VBox timed 0-100 with strip timed 400m for the same run there's every chance you'll get say a 4.5 sec 0-100 and 12.5 second 400m i.e 8 seconds.

The reality is though the 400m time on a VBox is 12.8, so that gives you 8.3 seconds spread.

The other question id like to pose to you is what impact do you think the 30 extra TOB KW that a Sprint 8 has over a Sprint 6 has would impact 1) That 8 second theory and 2) terminal speeds?

It's hard to be sure, but on available information I'm inclined to think that the Turbo Sprint might be potentially a fraction faster than the Auto 8 over the quarter at a very slightly slower end speed (assuming both have a similar torque reduction in 1st gear).
I understand that both cars have around 650 Nm on overboost with the same gearing and maximum cutout revs, so in this situation a torque comparison is meaningful and the Turbo is about 3% lighter. So whenever they have around the same torque and revs (apparently over a fairly wide rev range I think) the Turbo should have about a 3% torque/power/weight advantage and I'd expect it should be faster.

Of course at high revs the V8 has 30 kW more (8.1% more and around a 5.1% power/weight advantage) but I suspect only late in the rev range which can help end speed, but that will have little effect on time, and that's particularly so over the last few revs in 3rd gear near the end of the 1/4 run. Speed gains or losses have a minimal effect on 1/4 time.

But it's hard to call.

On the subject of the 8 second rule, as I was saying, I think the Sprint Turbo's time should be from 8 to 8.1 based on it having around an 185/6 km/h end speed, with a mid 4 second 0-100 km/h time. Of course a slow end speed will push the time higher and another point to note is that manuals can often go a fair bit over 8 seconds if the 2/3 change is done just after 100 km/h rather than just before.
Below I'm listing Motor Magazines (much slower than your) Sprint times, but the 100 km/h to 400 metre times are interesting and I'm also listing my three flatout runs from WSID beside them.

..............................Motor Sprint Turbo................Motor Sprint XR8................My Stock Untuned FG XR6 T Auto at WSID
.................................................. .................................................. ......................Run 1........................Run 2..............................Run3
0-20 km/h...................0.89 seconds.....................0.82 sec.......................................0.85sec. ....................0.84sec....................... .....0.96 sec
0-40...........................1.76................. ................1.70.............................. ...............1.64.........................1.61.. ..............................1.85
0-60...........................2.60................. ................2.63.............................. ...............2.61.........................2.37.. ..............................2.67

0-80...........................3.78................. ................4.00.............................. ...............3.70.........................3.43.. ..............................3.85
0-100 km/h.................5.01............................ .....5.26......................................... .....4.85.........................4.62............ ....................5.03

0-120.........................6.44.................. ...............6.72............................... ...............6.40...........................6.19 ..............................6.59
0-140.........................8.53.................. ...............8.74............................... ...............8.19...........................8.07 ..............................8.40
0-160........................10.66.................. ..............10.77............................... .............10.24..........................10.13. ...........................10.49
0-180........................13.07.................. ..............13.10............................... .............12.96 seconds

0-400 M....................13.12@180.39 km/h............13.22@180.95 km/h..........................12.97@180.04 km/h......12.84@179.39 km/h........13.14@179.50 km/h

100k-400M times........8.11 seconds......................7.96 seconds....................................8.12 seconds................8.22 seconds.................8.11 seconds

WSID Dragstrip Time Slips............................................. ......................................... 12.731 sec T/Slip..........12.509 sec T/Slip............12.841 T/Slip

So with these times we've got 100 km/h to 400 metre gaps of from 7.96 to 8.22 seconds and the 8.22 second time occurs with the fastest 4.62 second 0-100 time and the slowest performance after 100 km/h. The temperature was 18 degrees on this run, but the engine temperature had cooled after a long wait and I had some surging (likely caused by fouled plugs) So the 8.22 time could have been better.
Regarding the GTF getting the 4.68 and 12.68 second times you're right, from reading the Wheels article it seems to have been a clean launch which would have the effect of slightly reducing the 100 km/h to 400 metre time as you've suggested but it's the 186.7 km/h end speed that's important and that's demonstrated below.
I've mixed and matched my cars run 1 and run 2 data using the clever Racelogic software to come up with an exactly equal (4.68 second) time to 100, with quite similar 0 to 20, 40 ,60 and 80 times, so with a run like that the distance to 100 km/h would be very similar to the GTF's distance. Note the 100 to 400 metre time that this would give my car.
My calculated time.............................................. ...........................................The Wheels GTF's times.
0-20..............0.85 seconds........................................... .....................................0.8 seconds
0-40..............1.64.............................. .................................................. ............1.6
0-60..............2.44.............................. .................................................. ............2.5
0-80..............3.53.............................. .................................................. ............3.6
0-100km/h.....4.68 seconds in 70.08 metres............................................ ............4.68 seconds

0-120............6.24............................... .................................................. ............6.0
0-140............8.02............................... .................................................. ............7.8
0-160...........10.08............................... .................................................. ............9.5
0-180...........12.79............................... .................................................. ...........11.8
0-400 metres 12.85 seconds @ 180.27 km/h................................................. .........0-400 metres in 12.68 seconds @186.7 km/h.
So with a run identical to this, the 100 k to 400 metre time for my car would have been 8.17 (VS 8.00 sec for the GTF) and at the time that the GTF reaches 400 metres my car would be about 1.7 car lengths (8.44 metres) behind at a 7.3 km/h lower speed and that would have the GTF pulling away at just over 2 metres per second.

All things considered I'd be surprised if the Sprint couldn't get an 8.0 - 8.10 sec time.

I just hope you don't find this post too boring.

Hi 4V man

I'm sorry, I just realised that I misunderstood your questions (I should have read them more carefully).
If the two cars can achieve very similar 0-100 performances (which I believe should be possible grip permitting), then I think the 100 k to 400 metre times should be very close.
As calculated in my last post, a 7 k plus end speed difference only has a 1.7 tenth effect, and I can't imagine the Turbo being anything like 7 k's slower than the V8 with both cars giving their best.

One interesting point worth mentioning, is that the distance to 100 km/h can blow out if a car has a very fast 0-60 time and is a bit slow from that point on to 100 km/h. For an example of that see my post 5273 of 1/7/16 (a few pages back) on the "Australian Ford Forums" website in the "Ford Confirm 325 and 345 kW Sprint Series" thread (I post under 2242100 there as well).

I posted two screenshots of the downloaded data from two practically dead equal back to back 0-100 runs (with a cruise in between).
There was a heavy load in the boot to ensure no wheelspin with the old tyres, and with high stall launches the 0-60 times were 2.26 and 2.27 and the times to 100 were 4.66 and 4.67 with total distances of 73.91 and 73.97 metres.
So although those times were almost 4.68, the distances are nearly 4 metres more than the 70.08 metre distance calculation in the last post, and that would cut over 3/4 of a tenth off the 100 k to 400 metre time.

Thanks for that 2242100, appreciate your thoughts and efforts.

Have a look in this thread, some more numbers for you to mull over:

http://www.falconforums.com.au/showt...776#post108776

Most importantly the terminal speeds which i think are far closer to what is realistic for both cars.