GT V Clubsport.... your verdict.

[TS50]

Maurie, you called the current HSV a abomanation, god I agree with you, so many fake plastic grilles and and fake plastic other bits, to my eye they look hideous, I guess the main thing with them tho, is that you can pick the difference between a standard commodore and a HSV very easily
Ugly, and Uglier

[HSE2]

Yes I think Ian brought that up here or on FB.
It all goes back to bragging and what's "best". The standard GT's handling may not be as good as HSV's on the circuit but do the majority of GT owners really want a stiff(er) ride, or do they want a good all-rounder?
Maybe the Rspec option on it's own could be offered. Dunno.

This is what we need to watch for in the reviews.

What I said on Facebook is that to get another run at development costs I would like to see them do a run or make full time the Rspec changes in the GT-P.

You would keep the GT-P interior trim to make the limited Rspec cars special, but obviously the GT-P seats and brakes will enhance the Rspec suspension inclusion.

It's what the GT-P lacks. I say this assuming there is a light compromise in ride quality which I would leave the GT to cover for those customers until 2014 where the products can be reinvented if so desired.

All the limited editions so far have been GT based. We have 45 years of GT 50 years of Bathurst personally I think there is scope to do something with the GT-P that could go a long way to causing the GTS some heart murmurs.

That's what I would be doing. In fact I would up the tweak a little and badge the next GT-P with 351 plus Rspec.

[4Vman]

That's what I would be doing. In fact I would up the tweak a little and badge the next GT-P with 351 plus Rspec.

Hopefully this is what Tempest will effectively be.

[FTe217]

Andrew even though my description is applicable I could live with the Senator - as ugly in general they are their stance on the road is better than our current fpv's and even though too exaggerated on VE I wish FG rear quarter had more gaurd flaring this my bug bear with FG its too flat.

Ian/Norm IF ever a 351 Rspec is to be released I suppose your right using the GTP - but for me 351 should be aligned with GT HO < or whatever has be been mentioned over recent times.

[Elks]

That's what I would be doing. In fact I would up the tweak a little and badge the next GT-P with 351 plus Rspec.

I also agree with this. It would give people a reason to splash the extra $10K on GTP. Yes the seats and brakes are expensive but at OE cost two springs with different spriong rates effectively cost the same, as the engineering for both is done. As for 351 part that would be a bonus.

[HSE2]

Andrew even though my description is applicable I could live with the Senator - as ugly in general they are their stance on the road is better than our current fpv's and even though too exaggerated on VE I wish FG rear quarter had more gaurd flaring this my bug bear with FG its too flat.

Ian/Norm IF ever a 351 Rspec is to be released I suppose your right using the GTP - but for me 351 should be aligned with GT HO < or whatever has be been mentioned over recent times.

I think we have gone over the use of 351 as a HO Maurie. That will be seen as weakness given the GT is at 335. A HO now will need to be 400 plus. I do however believe there needs to be a Boss 351 and in my heart I would prefer that to be seen on a GT first but given our situation I think there is untapped potential in the GT-P and GT-E cars.

I am looking at the HSV numbers and see that the more expensive GTS was successful and I think that's because it offered a specification that people said is suitable.

I think there is scope with the Rspec package to finally give the points of separation to the GT-P and make it the car its needed to be and not the soft solution.

Like Tony I think 351 in the GT-P is a bonus but we can't ignore that HSV have split power levels and come VF there is going to be an even bigger difference on this front. Potentially a car badged 351 could make a car with over 400 questionable on value.

To stick a 351 badge on the engine now is practically just a reprint but you would have to retune to make sure there is an advantage to the claim. You don't want owners putting the car on a dyno and seeing no gain.

The time for a 351 sticker on a hero car by any name probably passed in 2002 or 2006 at the latest. By name or by actual number people will say 16 kws isn't enough and simply not look to what is really meant in the real world.

I know you aren't on facebook and I guess its probably the same on other forums but people have not bothered to read what has changed with Rspec. They have seen stickers and jumped up and down. This perception will leave with them. Most people leave a comment and walk away. They dont care that they were wrong; they dont care to read the responses and they move on to infect the next person.

I sat in Tonys car across from the race centre. We were talking to you on the phone at the time. As Tony was talking I am looking at the car through the window from that distance and thinking what drugs were involved here. The wheels were too much the colour off red it was horrible.

This is no bullshit.
As we walked passed the entrance doors, instantly I am thinking hang about this thing has changed the closer you get to it. Tony commented as he must have thought the same thing- its the down lights making the colours pop. He was right. When you stand next to it there is still no doubt it's in your face but in that aspect I think it will earn respect and be one car you don't have to explain ownership of. When you have the speed credentials you get away with murder.

I think this will demonstrate the difficulty in just throwing power at a modern car. Let's say it gets down to a low 12. For the LSA powered GTS to beat that number, and it should, its going to be seriously fast and need to be packing a number starting with 4. If the cost blows out for rational people that's going to cause some thought. My bet is the media will revert to he who wins the straight line is best but FPV and Ford face a difficult 2013.

They are completely out of sync (no pun intended) with where they need to spend money to give them a return and they have been the entire time. I would love for someone to explain this to me because the long term plan here really looks like it's been a day by day effort from BA.

Norm is right. HSV will come in about the third quarter so FPV get a break there but that's assuming there is much traffic in cross shoppers.
As is the case now FPV should in theory be competitive in the lower models. VF will be fresh interior and look with tech and features all issues FPV cant address until there is a new falcon but the engineering is something they can be competitive with. I personally think they need a new front bar and new wheels sometime in the 2013. They have just gone too long with that look.
If you are going to do that you need to introduce it at the start of 2013 as a model year. They now have the option of putting rspec across the range so that is a massive advantage but I still say they is room to market a true GT-P.
Let's say FPR win Bathurst in the 50th year. What's greater number is associated with Fords winning at Bathurst. 351. If they had been smart they could have made the limited edition run 351 in total.
You can't bring 351 into the GT this year because you are going to piss the Rspec owner off so and this is a fine line you look at the GT-P and do away with the themes. Don't make it limited and just add the Rspect suspension and tyre. Get the price a bit keener as there should be greater margin in the original GT-P price and see how you go.
An Rspec GT-P in rapid and black would have my BF in serious trouble.

[FTe217]

" What's greater number is associated with Fords winning at Bathurst. 351. If they had been smart they could have made the limited edition run 351 in total. "

As you mentioned above 351 could have worked but as you say not a chance anymore......I should have thought this more out and having done so since your post there's no reason for the future taking "HO" the next level as you say "GT 400 HO" Tempest oh yer + !

[HSE2]

Well assuming FPV keep going by name and product 351 on the side of a GT is a dead cert.

I guess what I am reacting to is that whenever FPV bring out a new product there is always something wrong. FPV have never done a GT-P limited so I guess part of me says that a change in the badge might head of those excuses. A GT-P with the Rspec suspension has never been done. There has never been a limited run with the performance seats brakes and suspension in the one package. Normally that would be enough but it appears there is a force that applies to FPV alone where as they needs to be improvements across the board.

I think I would try a Rspec GT-P perhaps as a limited run of 50 for the Bathurst celebration if FPR win Bathurst in FPR blue- silver-white
Next year I think I would look at upping the power to 351 in the GT-P with Rspec features as standard to head off and muddy the water HSV will move into.

[4Vman]

GTHO wont happen, its a dead duck, in name at least. But here's a question for you all: "IF" HSV bring out a $110K 380ish kw LSA GTS and "Tempest" end up being around 100K 351kw R-Spec GT-H and it performs every bit as well as the GTS (1/4 mile, 0-100, lap times etc) will the badge deficiency hinder its perception???????????

[HSE2]

With Barrett gone I am not so sure Norm. The return of the GTHO will depend on the fate of the Falcon. If Falcon goes GTHO will return to say goodbye.