Happy invasion day.

[WASP]

This is why a date change won't make any difference.

The stupidest bit of all this is the 26th of Jan is NOT the day Australia was "invaded", settled, or whatever you want to call it.

That was 19th of april 1770.

The 26th of January is effectively independence day from British control.

It occurred in 1946.

It's the anniversary of the beginning of Australian Citizenship.

I have no fkn idea why they call it invasion day, maybe they legitimately have no idea about history.

If somebody can suggest a date our Indigenous Australians won't feel sadness for the past wrongs I'm all ears.

19th of April 1770 was the day James Cook first saw land near the east coast of Australia, and then later making landfall near what is now called Point Hicks, and then they proceeded to Botany Bay.
The purpose of the trip was twofold, 1) observe the transit of Venus across the sun, and to seek evidence of the "undiscovered southern land" and return with said evidence.

In contrast, on January 26, 1788 marks the day British settlement began in Australia, hence the reason why those who are descendants from already inhabiting our country choose to refer to it as Invasion Day.

In 1818, January 26 then became an official holiday, marking the 30th anniversary of British settlement in Australia. As Australia became a sovereign nation, it became the national holiday known as Australia Day.

Today, we now celebrate the 26th as an evolved sovereign nation, however, I also think it's unreasonable to expect those people severely impacted by the original British settlement to simply forget or put that down to someone else’s past sins, progress, or evolution.

Unknowingly perhaps, the British settlers exposed the Indigenous people to diseases, such as smallpox, tuberculosis, influenza, measles, whooping cough, and the common cold. They later went on to gradually takeover of what were Aboriginal lands for farms and settlements on the premise that they believed the land belonged to no-one. There were of course atrocities on both sides, but the Aboriginals suffered greatly.

I say this to provide perspective, not to argue the case for moving the day.

As a proud Australian of British origin, for me, a big part of becoming Australian is being grateful the opportunities, privileges and freedoms that those early explorers and settlers started and fort for, while also accepting than many, especially Indigenous people suffered greatly as a consequence.

Part of that acceptance is acknowledging that even today, those descendants of our indigenous communities are still hurting, and even suffering as a consequence of the events that took place on January 26, 1788.

While I can’t begin to understand how changing the date of Australia Day will ease that burden for those people, I am prepared to do so as a gesture of acceptance, and respect, but most of all, recognition of those who made the ultimate sacrifice so that we could have this amazing lifestyle and freedoms we enjoy today. In the scheme of things, it seems a small price to pay.

[andrewforbes]

Activists are beyond listening. Even faced with the true reason they'd still be pissed off. They are here to complain because their past family members survived invasion day(if that's what they are calling it)
Currently u could place activists in the same boat(excuse the pun) as trumpeters, single mindedly ignorant n argumentative because it's a way of giving the ? to the establishment
Maybe government could take 1/2 the 23.9 b for vaccine ad campaign n do an Australia day ad campaign stating the truth.
Hey what happens if that dutch sailing boat is found off the coast of vic do we call the day they arrived the oz day/invasion day. It would also change how many yrs ago the first euros arrived.
Look protesting will only get u so far, our government as far as I know has never given in to protests (certainly in modern times) and I don't see anything changing anytime soon, Morrison certainly will not cave. N if it is such a big issue why only talk about it one day a year. I also wonder if most people are quiet on the subject because they feel some sort of shame for what happened in the past even though they had nothing to do with it.
Probably the most upsetting thing is that even to this day we have the troubling ability to still to treat some people whether indigenous or immigrants poorly n deny them basic human rights, it's a shameful past n present.

[HSE2]

I don’t see how changing the date achieves anything outside of never celebrating any aspect of the country at all.

Any date you change to will have an issue. If you go back far enough, look deep enough, someone was hurt in the formation of this country.

In my 50 years I have been scared by events some dates I remember to this day. What am i meant to do about that? And that’s directly not something that happened to descendants who came from Wales on the second or third fleet one of who lost his life at the hands of a native. If you can believe the family tree that is. You know I wasn’t actually there so it’s a bit hard to tell.

I support the address of suffering. Anything to do with this country needs to go back into character.

If we have people who are raised to dwell that far back, it’s going to be a case of what is next.

There can be no celebrating this country’s formation and to be blunt that suits where we are now.

If China were to invade tomorrow, Victoria would open the gates, WA would run and hide, qld would blame the tourist industry, leaving the rest of the states looming for federal leadership that’s non existent.

The trigger point here has come from turning the day into a celebration. Then again some want Anzac Day abolished because that caused grief too, but if the people who matter in this want remembrance, if they want the nation to stop and reflect, then by the very definition of the complaint, the 26 the correct day, it’s just events conducted on this day have the wrong focus.

Scrap the holiday. Run the aboriginal flag, dedicated moment silence, as the 11th, no holidays and let’s get on with it.

[HSE2]

Activists are beyond listening. Even faced with the true reason they'd still be pissed off. They are here to complain because their past family members survived invasion day(if that's what they are calling it)
Currently u could place activists in the same boat(excuse the pun) as trumpeters, single mindedly ignorant n argumentative because it's a way of giving the ? to the establishment
Maybe government could take 1/2 the 23.9 b for vaccine ad campaign n do an Australia day ad campaign stating the truth.
Hey what happens if that dutch sailing boat is found off the coast of vic do we call the day they arrived the oz day/invasion day. It would also change how many yrs ago the first euros arrived.
Look protesting will only get u so far, our government as far as I know has never given in to protests (certainly in modern times) and I don't see anything changing anytime soon, Morrison certainly will not cave. N if it is such a big issue why only talk about it one day a year. I also wonder if most people are quiet on the subject because they feel some sort of shame for what happened in the past even though they had nothing to do with it.
Probably the most upsetting thing is that even to this day we have the troubling ability to still to treat some people whether indigenous or immigrants poorly n deny them basic human rights, it's a shameful past n present.

I’m suspicious of how big of an issue this is with natives. Three doors up from me we have an aboriginal family. We haven’t spoken much in the 20 years he they have lived there but his attitude and that of his son is it’s just another day like any other. He raises Xmas, Easter, talks about what he refers to as token white fellas who have joined the cause.

He agrees that it’s not a National celebration while this discussion is on going and growing and that I guess is where my opinion comes from.

People will see and feel what they want to feel. If our children are taught that this day is the start of the end for natives of this land, not a lot will undo that. We no longer live here and now.

It’s a national embarrassment to have any divisive commentary around a chosen celebration and normally that would conclude in people agreeing it’s purely in poor taste.

Silence seems to be the only non offences stance to take. Because of how this country was formed, it’s impossible to have a day outside of potentially shifting to a republic.

If that was ever to occur, that would create a new date. Any other date is going to be pre, during or post attempted genocide.

[4Vman]

Approximately 3.5% of the Australian population is considered "indigenous"...

To be considered "indigenous" you need Aboriginal or Torres Straight Island ancestry somewhere in your family tree.

Let that sink in for a minute.

If you watch these protests only a small % of those protesting "look" indigenous, and a large % cannot possibly be.

The cause has been hijacked and magnified by "white" disruptors who have zero emotional connection to the cause and will go on to protest some other contentious cause next week.

Australia has done a lot to reconcile what happened, i don't think indigenous communities could be treated any better without somehow treating them better than the rest of the population.

I don't pretend for 1 second those communities aren't without issues, actually the opposite, but they arent exactly helping themselves in many instances.


I'm struggling to understand how people 2,3,4 generations removed can hold such emotional discontent, i fear they're being taught to keep feeling that way.

[andrewforbes]

I agree with points made for n against so I'll just return to fence sitting n wait for the day we become a republic. Sadly even then some will not be happy but it might be a completely different issue. One thing we can't do is undo ipast aggressions which will always make it difficult to move forward. If the date remains we should acknowledge the damage done n pay our respects the same way we treat anzac day n come together in the afternoon or evening.

[HSE2]

Approximately 3.5% of the Australian population is considered "indigenous"...

To be considered "indigenous" you need Aboriginal or Torres Straight Island ancestry somewhere in your family tree.

Let that sink in for a minute.

If you watch these protests only a small % of those protesting "look" indigenous, and a large % cannot possibly be.

The cause has been hijacked and magnified by "white" disruptors who have zero emotional connection to the cause and will go on to protest some other contentious cause next week.

Australia has done a lot to reconcile what happened, i don't think indigenous communities could be treated any better without somehow treating them better than the rest of the population.

I don't pretend for 1 second those communities aren't without issues, actually the opposite, but they arent exactly helping themselves in many instances.


I'm struggling to understand how people 2,3,4 generations removed can hold such emotional discontent, i fear they're being taught to keep feeling that way.

I think it’s very very important the the wishes and voice of our indigenous community is heard.

This has a bit of a union movement feel to it. The union is the people but the Union body often acts in behalf as a projection of them knowing better than the members they represent what’s bests for them.

Social media furthers that but I would prefer to say, OK celebrating at all around this countries formation is in bad taste. Nothing at all, no day date or otherwise is going to change what occurred in those traumatised by the 26th.

If that’s the way they see it and feel about it, changing the date will not alter how they feel on this day. How is this being addressed?

What support is available to get them through the 26th? Are we talking suicide stats here in terms of the depth of grief? I have seen very heavy language used to describe the impact this date has.

Unless this is purely about what others are doing that is. Which comes back to celebrating our formation. I just don’t see how that can occur.

And to be honest I didn’t think Australians will care if we lose this event. It’s not like we have done anything to support the country and those in it. It’s not like we have acted in our own interests to any degree.

Sure losing a public holiday would see outrage occur. So make a new public holiday, just do t make it about the countries formation in anyway shape or form.

I find it hard to believe it’s just the optic of white people having a good time on the 26th that is the issue so we really need to get mental support happening in these communities in the lead up and following this date.

Does anyone know if these communities have their own support system designed to deal with the feelings this date creates?

We have to stop this saying is doing bullshit. If you change the date you don’t address these feelings. The trauma is still there, the suffering is still there. We need actions around this date that will help and experts who specialises in this sort of mental stress syndrome.

I just have a hard time believing something as real as this could be solved by a date change. Regardless of a nationals day won’t our community still struggle in the 26th?

[andrewforbes]

Exactly, but even an expert in this type of trauma would find it hard to help and especially if it's a white person. Some people wouldn't even seek help because they believe they don't have an issue.
There are support services but mainly in larger towns n city's, not sure the remote communities would see much of anything really, they interact mainly with police and the odd government services but ya probably talking only one person. The police involve themselves in the community and have more and more indigenous recruits. Which is a positive.
If changing the date helps then why not? Certainly gaining an understanding as to why so many generations after the events feel this way would help. Individual motives are a question mark for me. As I said are they in it because it's a big middle finger to the establishment? (Think the middle finger emoji was replaced with a? In my last post.)
We certainly could be doing a far better job of it, ffs we live in Australia and we have multiple generations living in poverty and also creating more everyday. Sometimes it seems the establishment doesn't want to help or ease the pain.
For me indigenous people all around the world had it right, eat, sleep n live
Today we have to be so much more, wear so many different hats/titles and we only consider how much money can I make. Work a 40hr week to buy a house over 30yrs that you'll only spend 50% of your time in and have to deal with all the other trappings as well. We have no connection or sense to what human beings should be anymore. Can't live off money when all the animals are dead, Waters poisoned, trees are gone. (Anyway just dreaming again)
As I don't celebrate it, it really doesn't matter to me and maybe I should lend a hand towards positive change. what's one lost public holiday anyway. Didn't see many people taking the day off, most stores were open

[HSE2]

It depends on what the issue is.

The 26th will come an go no matter what. Either people impacted were suffering in silence previously or the suffering g has magnified once the country started to recognise the day. You can’t invent suffering or if you have it’s fake. If you need to be told you should be traumatic on this day, something is wrong.


If the date gets change to say April 10. No matter what that day means in theory, those traumatised will still know it’s about celebrating invasion day.

In my covid group there are several psychologists that have been talking about this form of trauma. No date change will arrest what these people feel on any day that’s linked to the formation of this country..

In their opinion Australia Day in any guise has to go completely. It can’t be replaced or shifted because on some level the symbolism of the 26 will still be projected in any other suggestion. Debate over alternative dates will cause more divisions resulting in the 26th being a psycho date regardless. It’s not going to go away if the issue is what others are thinking and doing on this date.

We are talking about deep seated trauma here.

This is getting to the point of resolution and not some feel good attempt to look like we care. It’s the mechanics of how people with mental issues think.

When you have a collective thinking and saying what they are, that’s not treatment. The debate and protests are the easy part. The doing especially effective doing requires specialist input if this is an issue in the head and mind.

On this day for these people will never change.

[HSE2]

If we want to think of it in invasion terms, that process starts when land is first encountered. That’s the start of the thought process on land acquisition.


First contact[edit]
The First Fleet encountered Indigenous Australians when they landed at Botany Bay. The Cadigal people of the Botany Bay area witnessed the Fleet arrive and six days later the two ships of French explorer La Pérouse, the Astrolabe and the Boussole, sailed into the bay.[51] When the Fleet moved to Sydney Cove seeking better conditions for establishing the colony, they encountered the Eora people, including the Bidjigal clan. A number of the First Fleet journals record encounters with Aboriginal people.[52]

Although the official policy of the British Government was to establish friendly relations with Aboriginal people,[43] and Arthur Phillip ordered that the Aboriginal people should be well treated, it was not long before conflict began. The colonists did not sign treaties with the original inhabitants of the land.[53] Between 1790 and 1810, Pemulwuy of the Bidjigal clan led the local people in a series of attacks against the British colonisers.[54]


[edit]
Smallpox[edit]
Main articles: Controversy over smallpox in Australia and History of smallpox in Australia
Historians have disagreed over whether those aboard the First Fleet were responsible for introducing smallpox to Australia's indigenous population, and if so, whether this was the consequence of deliberate action.

In 1914, J. H. L. Cumpston, director of the Australian Quarantine Service put forward the hypothesis that smallpox arrived with British settlers.[89] Some researchers have argued that any such release may have been a deliberate attempt to decimate the indigenous population.[90][91] Hypothetical scenarios for such an action might have included: an act of revenge by an aggrieved individual, a response to attacks by indigenous people,[92] or part of an orchestrated assault by the New South Wales Marine Corps, intended to clear the path for colonial expansion.[93][94] Seth Carus, a former Deputy Director of the National Defense University in the United States wrote in 2015 that there was a "strong circumstantial case supporting the theory that someone deliberately introduced smallpox in the Aboriginal population."[95]

MENU0:00
Chris Warren, "Was Sydney's smallpox outbreak of 1789 an act of biological warfare against Aboriginal tribes?", ABC Radio National – Ockhams Razor (podcast) (2014); 13 minutes.
Other historians have disputed the idea that there was a deliberate release of smallpox virus and/or suggest that it arrived with visitors to Australia other than the First Fleet.[96][97][98][99][100] It has been suggested that live smallpox virus may have been introduced accidentally when Aboriginal people came into contact with variolous matter brought by the First Fleet for use in anti-smallpox inoculations.[101][102][103]

In 2002, historian Judy Campbell offered a further theory, that smallpox had arrived in Australia through contact with fishermen from Makassar in Indonesia, where smallpox was endemic.[98][104] In 2011, Macknight stated: “The overwhelming probability must be that it [smallpox] was introduced, like the later epidemics, by [Indonesian] trepangers ... and spread across the continent to arrive in Sydney quite independently of the new settlement there."[105]

There is a fourth theory, that the 1789 epidemic was not smallpox but chickenpox – to which indigenous Australians also had no inherited resistance – that happened to be affecting, or was carried by, members of the First Fleet.[106][107] This theory has also been disputed.[108][109]