Keeping your ZF cool

[4Vman]

You're on the wrong forum

Nevertheless, it does happen. when i first bought my car i was aware of it, but still had warranty so wasn't bothered. The dealers at the time denied it was an issue and claimed it was fixed with the heat exchanger on the block. At least now most dealers are acknowledging the problem does exist and that they have seen examples of it. My dealer still tried to claim it was only early FG's, but failures have been reported well in to FG2.

Actually im on the right forum LOL

[prydey]

For those interested,

Genuine ZF fluid (life guard 6) prices that I've established-

Ford (which is ford branded apparently but is the same oil) $61/L
Motorspecs $38.40/L
Repco $37/L (less 10% discount for nrma members = $33.30/L)


Ford trans service requires 6L of fluid. A full flush would use about double, but my dealership don't have genuine ZF fluid in any of their flushing machines, so don't do it. They do blow out the lines and drain the torque converter and claim to get more than 90% of the fluid out.

My dealer has quoted $680 for ZF service, or $313 if i supply my own oil. As mentioned earlier, replacing the heat exchanger is $477 fitted.

All up this is $990 for me (sourcing oil from repco) and is booked in for next friday.

just to add,

heat exchanger has 12month warranty and if it fails and takes out the trans, Ford's blanket position is 'NO' as to whether that is covered also, but if it can be shown it was caused by the failed heat exchanger it will be forwarded to head office as a supplement warranty claim.

[FTe217]

People should buy manuals - ok I know shoosh up.

[4Vman]

People should buy manuals - ok I know shoosh up.

We need to keep context to it too.... Its not like every car will have an issue, in fact its probably more like 1% of cars have had the issue.

[prydey]

a poll started on AFF in 2013 has 68 votes for failure out of 550odd votes. running at around the 12% mark. i don't believe even 10% is realistic, but i think its probably higher than 1 %. unfortunately its not much consolation if you happen to fall in to that small percentage though is it.

[Road_Warrior]

I started a new poll on AFF to try to determine whether or not the problem was still present in later years, and part of the poll was to determine if you had had a failure, whether the cooling system was serviced. However, it didn't take off that well, with me largely being laughed at and told, by the same few, to just bypass the whole shebang and that ford are useless etc etc. Its hard to have an adult discussion sometimes over there, although i do admit, for many it would seem like the same discussion that had been had many times before.

One thing that sticks in my mind, is the fact that no manufacturer that i'm aware of use an air/oil cooler to cool trans fluid. There has to be a reason for this.

Two reasons that I can think of are

Faster warm up times for the oil, when controlled via coolant. We all know cold oil is thicker and takes longer to circulate, so having it warmed as quick as possible is beneficial. An air/oil cooler will take much longer, and some people have reported their ZF misbehaving on cold mornings until it warms up.

Another reason is much more stable temperature of the oil, given its being controlled by a cooling system with a thermostat. Stable temps are much better for these fussy gearboxes.
An air/oil cooler will keep the 'box cool enough, and by some reports it operates a lot cooler than the factory setup, but it is also at the mercy of the ambient temp, so oil temps, while probably not massive, do fluctuate more than if controlled via coolant. I can't say if this has any long term effect on the 'box. People have been running air/oil coolers for many years with no reports of issues, so one would assume in most cases, it is fine.

An air/oil cooler also sits in front of the condenser and partially blocks airflow. This is also pretty minor, but depending on where you drive, could have an impact.

These are some reasons I've come across to keep the factory setup.

I haven't seen your poll. I did find another old one (from 2013?) where of 559 respondents, 12% claimed to have suffered the milkshake failure, and 87% not. Whilst the poll was clearly marked "ZF equipped Falcons" there is a possibility people with 4 speeders voted as well. As an aside, this claim from a Whirlpool member and his discussion with a ZF rep implies that fluid temps are better, lower:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...482702&p=3#r56

Don't forget, the 6HP trans as far as I am aware, has an internal thermostat so retains a degree (see what I did there) of internal fluid temperature management.

EDIT: nawww you beat me to the punch about the poll. I wonder how many of those people voted who didnt even own one!

[4Vman]

a poll started on AFF in 2013 has 68 votes for failure out of 550odd votes. running at around the 12% mark. i don't believe even 10% is realistic, but i think its probably higher than 1 %. unfortunately its not much consolation if you happen to fall in to that small percentage though is it.

So 68 out of what? 150,000 units?

Even at 1% that's 1500 failures.... A long way from 68. At 12%? that's 18000.... No chance. Ford would have recalled due to risk V cost.

We all know forums can be havens for sooks and complainers and noisy members with axes to grind can make a problem appear worse than it is.

I'm sure you remember DanielXR8... a prolific sook who bought a modified secondhand XR8 and bitched and moaned about ford Service due to 1 rejected warranty claim, yet in EVERY thread regarding Ford service he dominated the topic.


Agree though, it's an issue nobody wants to encounter.

[prydey]

So 68 out of what? 150,000 units? .

ummm, no. out of 550 odd voters.

its a very small cross section and i'm the first to admit that the credibility is dubious at best. As RW said above, many probably voted YES even though not owning one.

No one likes Ford more than me, but you can't bury your head in the sand and say its not really an issue.

At least if people are made aware of it, and of their options they can make an informed choice based on facts rather than scare mongering.

[4Vman]

ummm, no. out of 550 odd voters.

its a very small cross section and i'm the first to admit that the credibility is dubious at best. As RW said above, many probably voted YES even though not owning one.

No one likes Ford more than me, but you can't bury your head in the sand and say its not really an issue.

At least if people are made aware of it, and of their options they can make an informed choice based on facts rather than scare mongering.

I know mate, i was just trying to put some context on the number 68, and where it sat relative to total estimated (very rough) ZF Falcon production.

I think the early Diff bush "issue" was far more prevalent to be honest (MY FG never had it), it's just the cost to fix the ZF if you're out of warranty that's freaking scary.

[prydey]

As an aside, this claim from a Whirlpool member and his discussion with a ZF rep implies that fluid temps are better, lower:

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...482702&p=3#r56

ha, thats the same guy who goes on a scare mongering mission on every thread on the topic on AFF. quotes all his official ZF correspondence and results from monitoring his own cars temps over the years.

i have nothing against people bypassing the factory system, but i do think its a case of scaremongering making people feel that if they don't do a bypass, their car will DEFINITELY fail, which isn't true.